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09 Oct 2009
Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
I figure someone has to start the topic. Anyway, is it just me or does this week feature a whole lot of one-sided contests? OAK @ NYG, DAL @ KC, MIN @ STL, TB @ PHI, PIT @ DET, IND @ TEN... "any given Sunday" notwithstanding, it seems like half the outcomes are almost preordained. Am I wrong? Is it an accident of schedule or are that many teams that bad this season?
308 replies , Last at 13 Oct 2009, 10:36pm by Zheng
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
Well if there are 6 or 7 bad teams out there, they can't play each other every week. That is, unless the NFL creates a second division for the really crappy teams to play in...
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
The NFC West?
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I think TEN may be in store to pull an upset this week. I'm basing that on no statistical or otherwise evidence though. Just a gut feeling. I also am thinking that DAL/KC may be close or an upset, but that could just be my inner paranoia getting the best of me.
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Dude, get in FO IRC. I'm tired of being the only Cowboys fan in there.
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Well, as we mentioned to the Washington Post this week, there's more undefeated or winless teams this year than there have been in a decade.
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Late word is that the Redskins will be starting Mike Williams at RG this week, with their two primary "backups" at the position healthy scratches (Chad Rinehart is inactive; Will Montgomery will dress as backup center).
I still don't think much of Jim Zorn as a head coach, but is there anybody else in the league who's been more set up to fail by management?
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I would argue that Al Davis is at least as bad. Both owners call all the shots (or in Snyder's case just the really big and important ones) and shoot their teams in the foot over and over again.
It is part of the reason that I reckon Norv Turner gets more critiscism than he deserves. He got fired under Snyder when every player on the team knew the coach was going to get canned and hence had no real authority then he coached under Davis with a car crash team that he at least got the offense functioning on. He gets fired anyway and the next year the offense falls apart under Mr Bed and Breakfast as Son of Buddy MkII gets the defense working. Yes his teams under-performed but I blame the ownership / organisational structure which conspired to either undermine or ruin the teams he was coaching on.
Then he gets the ultra talented Chargers to coach just as his HOF running back and TE get dinged for most of the year along with his Pro Bowl pass rusher killing his chances that year. This season he has lost his NT (who is the heart and soul of the defense) and still everyone simply blames Turner. If you look back at the Chargers of three or four years ago the best players are LT and Gates on offense and on defense a front five (in effect) of Phillips, Olshansky, Williams, Castillo and Merriman. LT isn't the player he was, Gates wasn't himself last year (although he does look better this season) and on defense only Philips and Castillo are the players they were three years ago. I am not saying he is a misunderstood genius or anything but he has got to be one of the unluckiest head coaches in the league.
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
Jerry Jones would like to be included in this discussion.
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Yeah you are probably right. It is never good for a football team when the guy in the building on the shortest leash is the head coach and everyone knows it. How can he chew guys out when their job security is much better than his?
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Just announced in the Min-StL game: "Leonard Little--the all-time sack-master in St. Louis."
That's scary in so many ways.
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It'd be scarier of such a title was endorsed by a major brewery.
Furthermore, is it just me or is the Browns' front-seven playing without arms? They're stuffing all of the gaps and lanes, there's literally nowhere to run. Yet somehow Jackson and Lynch are just bouncing around in the pile, making cut after cut and churning out yards.
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Well, this morning, I get to choose between OAK@NYG or MIN@STL. As you might expect, the favorites are out to big, early leads. The Raiders have gone three and out twice to start the game and JaMarcus Russell looks like a drunk trying to win a teddy bear at the carnival. Meanwhile, Kyle Boller has had the ball slip out of his hand for a fumble and Jared Allen returned it for a touchdown.
And, as I'm typing this the Raiders give up a 55 yard run to Bradshaw on 3rd and 24 to end the first quarter. EDIT: I just saw the replay on this. One of Raider's linebackers (57), hurt his leg/ankle on the play. He probably makes the tackle or slows up Bradshaw if this hadn't happened.
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
I have the Raiders/Giants and Cowboys/Chiefs. Tough choice, at least there's playoff baseball on.
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You clearly don't know how to watch bad football games, let me give you some tips:
1. Surprise your friends with statistics that you've tallied, "Did you know, through 4 quarters Jamarcus Russell missed his receivers by a combined 47 feet?"
2. Face of the Minnesota Vikings defense against the Giants defense is a point for point death match. Wager house hold duties.
3. Drinking games where every incompletion results in a drink, and no one's allowed to go to the washroom until Jamarcus Russell completes two in a row.
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JaMarcus Russell just gave up a fumble at around his 10 yard line on a blitz to his throwing arm side. Russell was locked on to the left side of the field and never saw the rush. And, the Giants capitalize to go up 28-0. The Raiders need a mercy rule at this point.
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About 10 minutes after I say the Raiders need a mercy rule, my cable company loses the CBS feed. It's merciful for us if we don't have to watch their ineptitude, right?
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I guess I pissed off the football gods. My cable company got the CBS feed back.
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Cool, I popped over the the Rams/Vikings game just in time to see the Prima Viking get picked. First and 10 Rams at the Vikings 25. Even so, I can't say I like the Rams prospects for scoring. They are the Rams.
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Wow, the Rams show signs of life. First and goal at the 9.
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And, then they promptly lose 2 yards and go incomplete, incomplete. They manage to get the field goal.
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Every year, I say the Rams have to get better--they have Steven Jackson. I think I need help breaking my Steven Jackson problem.
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As a Seahawks fan, I can't tell you how much joy I've derived from the Rams wasting Jackson's prime years.
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I cheered anyway. Hopefully, this is the start of a Delhomme-like meltdown . . .
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God, Brian Billick's inability to acknowledge the replay he's talking over while getting the call wrong is... refreshing.
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This isn't really football-related, but I think it's hilarious that there are two commercials in rotation at the same time in 2009 using Blue Oyster Cult songs (though one is some sort of horrendous dance cover version).
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Songs? Wasn't aware that they had more than "Don't Fear the Reaper".
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Go, Go Godzilla and Burnin' For You got a lot of air time.
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Well, "Godzilla" and "Burnin' for You" are the ones being used in commercials.
If you're a normal top-40 pop-type music listener, they've only had 2 hits, "(Don't Fear) The Reaper" and "Burnin' for You" (the latter of which also gained some notoriety when many radio stations banned it after 9/11). However, for a rock fan, all three of these, as well as "Astronomy" and perhaps "Cities on Flame with Rock and Roll" are classics. They also did have 8 straight albums make the top 50 from 1975-1982, with two of those albums ("Agents of Fortune" and "Some Enchanted Evening") going platinum.
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Most classic rock stations also have an odd affinity for "Goin' Through the Motions," though I can't really explain why. It's not particularly popular with fans, it wasn't even a single let alone a hit, and it's actually a rather wussy pop song (though it has a great solo).
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Just saw a cutaway to the Cowboys/Chiefs game: 10-0 Chiefs. Yeah!
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Anyone watching the Browns/Bills pillow fight? I see the score is 3-0. That looks scintillating.
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It's very windy, very windy. Buffalo's also making a lot of mental mistakes. It's brutal.
Double-M is reverting to his college self, or doing his best braylon edwards impersonation. Seriously, could there be a better Edwards replacement?
Every time the play-by-play guys mention Shaun Rogers, they say "all 350lbs of him," followed by, "...at least 350lbs," followed by "hahhahaha lolz".
I still don't think the Browns have completed a pass.
Terrell Owens is having a good game but appears to be sick as a dog. He's been using those pink towels as snot-rags and occasionally just straight up picking his nose with it.
How much would you pay for that at auction?
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Ah, didn't know about the wind. Not surprisingly, neither network has broken away to show highlights of the game and I don't watch any of the pregame shows.
As for TO, I'd pay to be let out of any auction involving him.
Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
I don't know which was worse: the Browns beating the Bills 6-3, Derek Anderson's impersonation of JaMarcus Russell (ONLY 2 PASSES COMPLETE?! REALLY?!) or Tommy Wiseneau's The Room?
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The Giants just muffed a punt return. Oakland recovers at the NY 14. Can they score?
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The Giants are helping. Maybe they feel sorry for the Raiders. NYG called for PI. First and goal at the five for the Raiders.
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Ooh, high drama. The Giants stand up Fargas, strip the football, and run it back for an apparent touchdown. But, the zebras say forward progress had been stopped. The Raiders score on the next play.
Technically, forward progress had been stopped, but I've certainly seen that kind of play allowed to continue. The Raiders cash in on two lucky breaks and narrow the lead to 28-7.
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Well, I'm glad the Raiders scored, but I still have to say that probably should've been a fumble.
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The Giants have gone into a mini meltdown. On the ensuing kickoff, the ball bounced around near the 15 yard line. The Giants managed to cover, but then they got a personal foul, so they're starting inside the 10 yard line and David Carr has come in at QB.
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The Raiders promptly let the Giants out of their hole, but Bradshaw gets his legs rolled up on a nice run. Bradshaw is being looked at on the sideline. David Carr just threw a beautiful ball to Hicks, but he couldn't get both feet in bounds. Would've been first and goal at about the five. The pass also would've beaten the Raiders best corner who's name I can't spell. Raiders hold and force a punt.
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Even when he's beaten, Asomugha telekinetically shoves the receiver's feet out of bounds. He's just that good.
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Russell gives up another fumble on a strip sack. He was almost stripped on the previous play. Giants driving for a half ending TD with 14 seconds to go with first and 10 at the Raiders' 15.
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And, Kelly (Raiders defensive lineman) just does a combination punch on O'Hara (Giants center), but only gets a personal foul. I'm a little surprised he wasn't ejected. Giants settle for the field goal due to time on the clock and leave 2 seconds for the ensuing kickoff. 31-7 Giants at half time.
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Suggestion to the Bucs: don't let McNabb scramble for 10+yds on 1st down, or at least double cover Jeremy Maclin on the next play, because so far we've had: first drive: scramble 13yds, 51yd pass to Maclin for a TD. Latest drive: scramble 17yds, 40yd pass to Maclin for a TD.
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
Wait. Isn't Mike Vrabel a linebacker?
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And still Vrabel has more TDs than Romo at halftime.
I'm starting to feel sorry for Tony Romo at this point.
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No, no, no. He plays for the Cowboys. You can't feel sorry for him.
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Sidney Rice just made an incredible catch against the Rams. I think Rice was held, ran through illegal contact, and then made the catch while being interfered with. Also on the play, Rams defensive lineman injured his left leg on what looks like a cheap shot from one of the Vikings lineman.
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I'm sorry I don't always put the names in. I don't know the teams and my short term memory tops out at about 5 seconds.
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Sidney Rice is almost disturbingly reminiscent of Rod Smith to me. I remember when Rod was young, he would make these spectacular, highlight-reel grabs then drop something right on the numbers. Then he would run over, around, and through four guys to get open on one play then be unable to get away from a slow safety on the next.
It's not any kind of a scientific comparison between the two and I haven't seen Rice every game of his career like I did with Smith, but I'm struck by it every time he makes a catch like that.
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Boller throws the ball right at Jared Allen and almost gets picked. I don't think the Ravens miss Boller. Then, on third and two the Rams keep Jackson out, run, and don't get the first down. This brought out the boo birds.
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Well, well, well. My local CBS affiliate has taken mercy on me. I'm now being shown the Steelers/Lions game, which is 21-13 Steelers about half way through the third quarter.
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And, Hanson promptly misses a make-able field goal after a decent Lions' drive.
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Okay, I should maybe cut Hanson a little slack. It was a 49 yard attempt.
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Just got home from the Eagles game. How did Detroit score the last TD? Thought I had that one in the bag when I left the Linc.
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Sorry, I don't know. CBS cut me over to the Bengals/Ravens game when it was 28-13 Steelers.
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Awesome play by Ed Reed in the game against the Bengals. The Bengals have trips right and Ocho'y'cinco on his own on the right. The Ravens are lined up to blitz with Reed motioning over from the offensive left to a single high position immediately before the ball was snapped. Palmer proceeds to stare down 85 and Reed jsut follows his eyes and steps in front to pick off the ball and run it in for the score. To be fair to Palmer, Reed was 20 yards out of position and shouldn't really have been there but that is Ed Reed for you.
I guess that is why it is fun watching first ballot HOFers play the game.
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Im taking a spanish class at a community college right now.... its ochenta y cinco. Adios!
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Big Ben just threw a 47-yard bomb to Mike Wallace, who got behind everyone. 28-13 Steelers.
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Boller just overthrew Martin by 5-10 yards. Would've been a TD.
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Two plays later, Tyrell Johnson for the Vikings just breaks up the pass as the Rams throw for the end zone again. It would've been 6.
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The Lions just ran a well designed and well executed screen pass to the left side on third and 10 to pick up the first down.
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They have had huge gains on three screen passes in this game.
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I'm not surprised. If you can catch the Steelers in the right blitz, screen passes have the chance to be big plays.
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The crawl on my game just said that Coughlin has kept Manning out of the game for the second half. David Carr came in for Manning just before half time. I like the move. The Raiders aren't going to beat the Giants. Giving Manning a little rest and keeping him from further injury is the right choice for a blowout game.
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The Lions have a nice little drive going here. Of course, just as I type this, they have to burn a time out to avoid a delay of game penalty. But, two plays ago, they had a nice 10 yard run on either first or second down to pick up the first down. Sorry I didn't catch the runner's name. The Lions are inside the Steelers' 40.
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Lions running back Felton broke a number of tackles on 3rd and 7 to pick up a first down. Then, Culpepper fumbles the snap, picks up the ball, runs around like a frightened school girl, throws back across the field and is intercepted by Clark. A 12-play drive down the drain. Culpepper has been in the league long enough to know to just fall on the ball or take the sack in that situation. What a doofus.
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However, has Culpepper really ever shown any capacity for learning since coming into the NFL?
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You make a good point. I had forgotten that in my disgust at the singular stupidity shown which killed a nice drive.
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Of course Culpepper has learned something: when in trouble, look for Randy Moss. It's just too bad Moss is in New England now...
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It looks like the Vikings offensive line is every bit as good this week against the Rams as they were last week against the Packers. Just saw a replay were the Prima Viking had nearly an eternity to complete the pass (I think he threw it around 5-6 seconds, but he could have stood back there twice that long.) On the next play, a huge hole for AP and a TD.
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I'm starting to get dizzy. CBS has decided the Lions/Steelers game is "out-of-hand". When they come back from commercial, I'll be watching the Bengals/Ravens.
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Ray Rice just made an incredible catch and run for a 49-yard TD for the Ravens. He runs through a group of five Bengals breaking the tackles of two of them. He almost goes down, but gets his hand down in time to save his balance and then out runs the rest of the Bengals to the end zone. What an amazing athletic play.
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Finally in the fourth quarter the Steelers decide to attempt to defend draws and screens.
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I cut back to the Rams/Vikings came just in time to see Avery catch a TD pass for the Rams. Then, he starts doing this lame dance in the end zone. Hey, Avery, your team sucks and you're down 31-10. Maybe you just run back to the side line.
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The Vikings have put Tavaris Jackson in, and it looks like Adrian Peterson is also done for the day.
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Ravens bring a blitz on 3rd and 5 and the blitzer is unblocked. A back-pedaling Palmer throws the ball right at Ray Lewis, who gets two hands on the ball, but can't quite make the interception. The Bengals are lucky to not give up another pick 6.
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At about 5 minutes to go in the game, the intrepid announcing crew of Jim Nantz and Phil Simms take the time to tells us that the Bengals are playing with heavy hearts. Their defensive coordinator went home sometime early last week to find his wife dead. The Bengals have dedicated the game to the defensive coordinator.
Now, I have all the sympathy in the world for the man's loss. But, this comment seems incredibly out of place at this point in the game. Now, I've only seen a little bit of the game because I didn't get the feed until half way through the fourth quarter. Does anyone know if this is an ongoing story line for the game and I'm just now hearing about it? From the way Nantz and Simms were talking, though, it certainly seems like this is the first they brought it up.
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The announcers for that game are Gus Johnson and Steve Tasker. They have been talking about that throughout the game, that wasn't the first time.
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Thanks. I think we posted at the same time.
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I think I have part of the announcing crew wrong. It's not Jim Nantz doing play-by-play. I think it might be Gus Johnson. But, it sure sounds like Phil Simms doing "analysis".
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Ravens miss hitting a long pass for a TD to lock up the game. Flacco overthrew his receiver about 5 yards.
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And, Gregg Easterbrook is adding another entry to the "Brrk, brrk, back" section of his column as the Ravens punt from around the Bengals 40.
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You know Easterbrook is writing right now that if the Ravens had just gone for it in the "Maroon Zone", they'd probably have converted and won the game.
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Derek Anderson: 2 of 15 for 23 yards with five minutes left. Awe inspiring.
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Wow. I think that's worse than JaMarcus Russel's numbers today. Anderson has some talent. Is the wind really that bad?
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Well, Derek Anderson is that bad.
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Bengals have a 4th and 1 near their 35 yard line to keep their hopes alive. And...........Palmer scrambles for the first down. Can the Bengals continue being the Cardiac Kids of the 2009 season?
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Ray Lewis just lit up Ocho Cinco on an incomplete pass play. Lewis draws, justifiably, a 15-yard penalty. It should be noted that "Hole in the Zone" failed to make the interception for the Ravens on the incomplete pass. :-)
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On succeeding plays, a Bengals receiver drops a pass near the goal line, then the center snaps the ball before Palmer is ready. The Bengals recover the fumble, but half to take their last time out. After the time out, the Ravens commit pass interference. Finally, Palmer hits Caldwell on a thin post route for the go ahead TD. 17-14 Bengals with 22 seconds to go.
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The Ravens are going to be bitching about penalties again this week. All the calls I saw I thought were legitimate.
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Leon Hall just picked off a long Flacco pass to seal the victory for the Bengals. So, the Bengals are on top of the AFC North now, right? The season's young, but I don't think many people foresaw this.
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Fox has cut over to the Cowboys/Chiefs game. A long Chiefs' reception is under booth review. If it stands (and from the views I've seen, it should), the Chiefs will have the ball on the Cowboys' 37-yard line with 1:25 to go. It's currently 20-13 Cowboys.
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Cassel to Bowe, complete to the Cowboys' 19-yard line. Newman for the Cowboys was injured on the play. He walked off the field under his own power.
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I didn't watch the game, but something tells me the Cleveland/Buffalo game won't get replayed on the NFL Network anytime soon.
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I guess the Browns had one more feather in their pillow than did the Bills.
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Derek Anderson just. wins. games.
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Can't argue with that.
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Chiefs have 4th and 7, ball game on the line. Cassel hits Bowe in the end zone for the apparent TD. It's under booth review and should be confirmed.
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The TD stands, the PAT is good, and it's 20-20 with right around a minute to go. But, because the late CBS game is starting, we can't watch the rest of the game.
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OMG, my eyes are bleeding. The Broncos come out in uniforms that look like a well used baby's diaper. They should be embarrassed to have to wear those uniforms.
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That's why they got rid of them.
I also remember hearing (whether it was true or not) that the league wanted them to wear those uniforms for the NFL 75th anniversary season and they refused, opting instead for a modified version of one of their later uniforms (which I actually liked).
Rumor also has it that they may have first worn the horrible brown and yellow things because the owner picked them up on the cheap from a defunct pro team. There doesn't seem to be evidence of this, just rumor, but it's certainly believable given their ugliness.
I was frightened when I found out they were going to wear those *things* this year.
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That's a good story. Thanks for sharing.
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They either stole that color scheme from a bag of peanut M&Ms, or vice versa.
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This is going to be a tough game for me. Two of my least favorite teams, one wearing incredibly hideous uniforms. I guess I'll hold my nose and "root" for the Patriots.
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Are we just one more Dallas defensive meltdown from seeing Jason Garrett take over at Head Coach??? The bye week is coming up, giving them a 2 week transition period...
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I don't know. That doesn't seem to be Jerra's way of doing things. Of course, he's Jerra, so I guess nothing would surprise me.
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Yea! Broncos wide right.
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*sighs* They can't even shutout the Chiefs. It's going to be a long season for the Dallas Cowboys...
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Damn, the Chefs snatch defeat from the jaws of victory again. That was some bad tackling.
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The Patriots run a nice screen play off of some fake trickeration action in the back field. This sets up a Brady to Welker TD pass, which is apparently the first TD pass given up by the Broncos this year.
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In the first 9 minutes the Falcons have successfully brought the 49ers back to Earth.
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Broncos return man McKinley runs the ball out from 8 yards deep in the end zone. He's lucky to get to the 18-yard line. Does he think he's Percy Harvin or Devon Hester?
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Is there anyone on this board watching my mighty SeaChickens play? Is Matt back? How does he look?
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Matt is back. So far he has completed twice as many passes as Derek Anderson did in one game.
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You probably didn't mean it this way, but talk about damning with faint praise.
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While I admit I have no idea what that phrase means (South Jersey education has failed me again!), I meant no disrespect against Hasselbeck. However how Derek Anderson looked worse than JaMarcus Russell completely baffles me. And they benched Brady Quinn for this guy...
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Damning with faint praise means to find a low standard and then say someone is better than that, with the implication being there was no other standard the person could have beaten. I figured you weren't dissing on Matt but were just tweaking Anderson some more.
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Fumble Broncos, recovered by the Patriots. Yea!
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And, the Cretin further demonstrates his idiocy. No, Josh Daniels does not have to challenge the call. It's clear on the replay that it's a fumble. You don't throw away a challenge and a time-out. And, Nantz isn't satisfied with the Cretin's idiocy. He says the challenge is justified to give the Broncos' defense a little more rest. Hey, Genius, it's the first quarter. They haven't had time to get tired.
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Patriots miss on what would have been a TD pass and settle for the field goal.
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Yep. A clear indication that Brady is not back to his usually accurate self. Couple more weeks.
PS: Notice how the announcers like to keep to a story line? When a linebacker grabs a Bronco on 3rd and short, causing an incomplete, the announcers blame the QB/WR, as it fits the story line of Orton as inaccurate, as opposed to explaining that it was an uncalled hold (could see the shirt being tugged on the cut all the way until the missed catch). Then, when Welker catches the TD, they accurately talk about Welker's ability to get open on the exact same type of play, as Welker as shifty guy fits their story line.
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Yeah, I alluded to that when I ragged them on their commentary about the challenge.
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Rams had three turnovers in the redzone ouch...
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Watching the crawl, I see Carolina came back to beat Washington. Anyone have an over/under on the number of games Jim Zorn has left as a head coach?
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I give it either a loss to Kansas City or Oakland. If JaMarcus Russell plays better than Jason Campbell in that game, then Campbell will have to fight for a starting spot next year.
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I'll probably get excoriated by Chris for saying this, but Campbell is a better QB than Russell and the Redskins' problems don't even begin to start with the QB position. Having said that, do you know who Campbell's backups are?
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Campbell's backups are Todd Collins and Colt Brennan, not exactly an intimidating group, but they're better than Russell. I agree on that QB is the least of their worries, but when you're owner tries to go after two highly-sought after QBs in the offseason, I'd be worried about my job security as well. Plus, Campbell is in the last year of his contract (I think) and his play so far hasn't had the masses asking to keep him
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That's a good point. I think it more than likely Campbell will find himself a backup QB somewhere next year.
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God, if Chris couldn't agree that Campbell is better than JaMarcus, then the man has a real problem...
I thought Todd Collins was still in Washington. Colt Brennan is there too, but I think he got injured this year.
Just looked at the Gamebook and yep Collins is the backup. Randel El is probably the emergency.
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I don't think I want to comment on whether or not Chris needs help, but he certainly has been, how shall I say this, focused in communicating his dislike of Jason Campbell.
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I hate to admit this, but I'm a little disappointed that the Browns/Bills game didn't go to overtime. I'm not sure what this says about me. Probably nothing good.
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Hate to quote myself from the DVOA thread, but even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while:
"Agreed. Put me down on the list of "not buying it yet." I think the Pats will expose Denver this weekend."
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Is the reason why you hate to quote yourself because you were wrong?
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Well, come on now, Kibbles. I wrote that when NE was running up and down on them. As a Colt fan, I am not unhappy.
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Just pointing out that blind squirrels might want to make sure that it's really a nut before biting in and chipping their teeth on a rock, instead.
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Whoa--The Who is on in the stadium. Awesome.
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Does anyone else besides me think that McDaniels has totally wasted his two challenges today? Was that three yards really that important?
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I didn't realize that if you get the challenge correct that you still "lose" the challenge. That's an absurd rule -- so if the refs screw up, and you catch them, you lose?
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Though you do get a third challenge if you succeed in both.
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There is one exception. If you successfully challenge for your first two challenges, then you get a third challenge. But, basically challenges are like missiles: you shoot 'em and they're gone.
I agree the NFL challenge system is absurd. I much prefer the college system.
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Then, yes, that second challenge was dumb. Would have helped if the refs got the call right, but you can't waste it then.
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What is the college system?
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In the college, there's an official in the booth watching replays of absolutely every play. If a play call was clearly correct, nothing happens. If the replay official in the booth sees a replay and thinks the call might have been wrong, he calls down to the field to stop play so he can review it a couple more times and make a ruling. If a coach wants to give the guy in the booth more time to review, he can always just call a timeout- all reviews are automatic, so the booth guy will keep looking at the play through the timeout.
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The NFL's original replay system used calls from the booth, but there were too many delays for "unimportant" plays. (Should it be 4th and 3 or 4th and 5?) Coach's challenges ensure that the replay matters.
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I do.
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Ooh, a roughing the passer call and it's not against the Patriots. Are the football gods exacting some payback?
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YYYAHHHOOOOOOOO!
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Dude, that was a perfectly legal hit. That's just hard-nosed football when you hit a QB (well, one without a Pro Bowl appearance or SB win).
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Oops, that should have said "and it's against the Patriots".
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Almost had me going there...
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That's a heads-up play by Marshall to knock that tipped pass down. Otherwise, it might have been a NE pick six.
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Well, the Broncos have come to life and have a nice drive going. Did the Patriots change up their defense or have the Broncos just started executing?
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Pats players just heard about the Sawx blowing a 2-run lead in the 9th and getting knocked out. They'll get it together after a moment of silence.
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Okay, more seriously. I didn't see a change in defense, but the Broncos got much better pass protection.
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So now if only the Yankees could follow Yankees Mk II out . . .
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Thanks for the baseball update. I'm surprised that both the Dodgers and the Angels swept. I'm happy for the Dodgers' sweep, not so much for the Angels.
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What a great throw and catch by Orton and Marshall for the TD. 10-7 Patriots.
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So, the Cretin just marveled at the Patriots offense having an outlet receiver 15-yards down the field. Hmmm, maybe the Patriots have a good offense and block well. Just a thought.
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That was a nice, four minute drive by the Patriots. Brady to Watson, TD, to make the score 17-7 Patriots with 5 seconds to go in the half.
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Well, does Orton have the arm for a 60-yard hail mary attempt?
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Yes, yes he does, but Randy Moss, playing DB, makes the interception. Half time.
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I have to admit I was surprised that he could throw that far.
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Me, too.
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Cool. Seattle's up 20-0 over Jacksonville. Matt and TJ hooked up for a TD.
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I asked earlier what the over/under was on the number of games Jim Zorn has left as head coach. I just saw the "highlight" of the Browns/Bills game and saw that the Browns got their go ahead field goal after Buffalo muffed a punt return. Do we need an over/under for Dick Jauron?
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Now Moss has the potential to become the 4th player ever to catch a TD pass and make an interception in the same game. The others are Jim Houston for Cleveland in 1966, Roy Green for St. Louis in 1981, and (ironically) Brian Dawkins for Philadelphia in 2002.
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I'd bet Belichick knows this and tries to make an opportunity to get Moss a TD catch.
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Atlanta is crushing SF 35-10. Can anyone comment?
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Curse of 370 be damned, Mike Smith is hell bent on running Michael Turner until his wheels fall off.
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Has the Atlanta offense scored all the points or has their defense been feasting a little on the inept SF offense?
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Niner defense has been bad, lots of missed tackles. SF also fumbled a kickoff return which turned into a TD.
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Looking at Roddy White's stats so far: 6 catches for 185 yards and 2 touchdowns. Either the Niner's secondary is horrible, or Nate Clements cannot cover elite wide receivers.
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Actually, I caused it. I benched White in one of my fantasy leagues. I have that power.
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LMAO
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LOL
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90 of those were on a touchdown where Clements missed a tackle.
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I guess every unit is entitled to a bad day. The SF defense had been the strength of the team so far this year.
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SF's been channeling the Raiders today...
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Niners have no offense; only touchdown was set up by short pass combined with receiver breaking the tackle of Brent Grimes.
Ball has bounced Atlanta's way a bit as well; the SF fumble on the kickoff return was caused by the ground, but Singletary couldn't challenge because he had used all his timeouts. Dre Bly also picked off a pass but showboated on the return and wound up stripped from behind by Roddy White, with the Falcons recovering.
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I've never seen that before. It looks like the engineer at my CBS affiliate pushed the wrong button. The weekly EAS test started playing and then cut out about half way through. Fun.
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Just saw the HOU/ARI score: 21-0 Arizona. Anyone watching that game and have comments?
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Right now it's 21-14. Houston's D looks like they're knocking Warner around a bit.
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CBS just showed that the Texans have come all the way back to make it 21-21.
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OMG, it's the Bengals game all over again. The Patriots tip an Orton pass twice, but Gaffney ends up making the catch. At least this one didn't go for a TD.
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I'm a Denver fan, and this is the luckiest team I've ever seen. They are blowing away the early-season Jets from last year for pure luck.
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Next year, every coach in the league will be stressing the importance of tip drills.
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Great defensive stand by the Patriots to stop the Broncos on 3rd and short in the red zone. Broncos settle for the field goal. 17-10 Patriots.
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Drew Brees is on bye, so I started Derek Anderson.
There are several obvious jokes here, but I'm not sure my brain is functioning well enough to be able to actually think of them.
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Ouch. That's too painful to joke about.
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Look at the bright side. Derek is almost certain to play better than JaMarcus next week. Feel better?
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Nice 36-yard pass and catch between Brady and Moss, although I think Moss didn't need to fake the hook and lateral to Welker.
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The Patriots get a running into the kicker call. It was the correct call, although I could have done without the soccer flop the punter performed.
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Then, they show McDaniels screaming at the what must have been the special team's coach. I've never understood this. The coach didn't run into the punter. Does he think so little of the coach that he doesn't think the coach will address this in practice? Does he think the coach doesn't address this in practice? If so, doesn't that mean McDaniels is just showing his "badness" as a head coach? After all, he hired the guy so he obviously thought the coach could do the job. At some point, don't you have to learn to control you emotions instead of letting them control you?
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I believe this is the thought process: Some guy just f*ed up and he's too far to yell at him. Who's next up the line? His position coach--he's special teams so yell at special teams coach. Now I have proven I am the Big Man. I am In Charge. Okay, now we may continue.
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Wow, and then on the next Patriot's punt, the Broncos are offsides giving the Patriots a first down. At least McDaniels maintained his composure this time.
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You don't think maybe you're reading a bit much into it? Ok ok, you don't think much of McDaniels. You've made that abundantly clear. You don't *really* think him yelling about a bad play in an emotionally-charged game is stronger evidence of his quality as a coach than a 5-0 start with a team that was supposed to be a laughingstock? Hindsight's 20/20 and all that, but even at the time you posted this his team was playing the Pats close. You're obviously going out of your way to interpret everything he does in the worst light possible, which is your right. But it's terrible reading.
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I think I've made it clear that I disliked how McDaniels handled the challenges, although half of that was calling out the announcers for defending what I thought was a bad decision. And, I think I made it clear I didn't like his emotional outburst on the running into the punter call. And the core of that post was the issue of controlling your emotions versus letting them control you. So, in those two instances, I thought he was a bad coach. But, it's a stretch to take two things I happened to comment on, which were negative, and conclude that I dislike McDaniels or think he's a bad coach overall. I think on this site they colloquially call the "Small Sample Size Theater". Nothing else McDaniels did in the game jumped out at me as being worthy of comment.
I don't quite know what to think of McDaniels. During the off season, I thought he was going to be like most of the rest of Belichick's "disciples" and either be mediocre or fail. Now, he's got the Broncos off to a 5-0 start. There's a lot of conventional wisdom pressure right now to anoint him as the next genius, especially since the off season conventional wisdom thought he was going to crash and burn and take the Broncos with him. But, even though the Broncos are 5-0 and look good right now, we're still in "Small Sample Size Theater" mode. I will give McDaniels credit for hiring Mike Nolan, who seems to have single-handedly turned the Broncos defense around. The Broncos defensive play, I think, is largely the reason for their early success. That, and with the exception of the Patriots and perhaps the Bengals, an early season diet of cupcake opponents.
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Patriots left tackle, Matt Light, has been helped to the locker room with a left (I think) leg injury. I don't think he will be back today. I don't know who the backup is or how good he is.
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Sebastian Vollmer is his name. He's a rookie, drafted in the second round.
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The circus must be in Denver. Champ Bailey is covering Wes Welker. They both go up for the ball and it's tipped. The ball squirts through Bailey's hands for a near interception and then Welker almost catches it out of Bailey's hands. After the exciting incompletion, the Patriots punt and pin the Broncos on their 2-yard line.
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The AFC West is benefiting from "forward progress stopped" calls today. Oakland was spared a fumble return for a TD and now the Broncos get saved by the call.
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Though the one in the Chiefs/Cowboys game went the other way, with a Cowboy fumble taken away by non-reviewable "forward progress stopped." Maybe the NFL sent out a memo this week?
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So what the heck is up with the Seahawks. Three losses are sandwiched between a 28-0 win and now a 41-0 lead late in the 4th. Sure Hasselbeck makes a difference but this defense isn't close to the same one that had been playing.
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I wish I had an answer. I've only seen the 49ers and Colts games. I think having Mebrane back has a lot to do with it.
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Frank Tripucka just got mentioned during a game. I never thought I would hear that. Is Goose Gonsoulin up next?
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Denver gets a horsecrap "taunting" call in the red zone, then ties the game.
See that, Baltimore? What goes around comes around.
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and a horsecrap "forward progress" call before that.
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That was very strange. Patriots DB Meriweather got flagged for taunting, but the replay showed the flag was thrown before Meriweather did anything that could be construed as taunting. Maybe he said something. I could have understood him getting flagged for unnecessary roughness since he hit the receiver well after the ball had gone by.
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Announcers said that the flag you could see on the replay was only one of two. That one was an incorrect PI call, as the ball had been tipped. The other flag, coming from the inside ref, was the taunting call.
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Thanks for the clarification. I missed the explanation. I must have been typing. Either that or I'm getting better a filtering out the voices of Nantz and the Cretin.
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And, with the help of the "taunting" call, the Broncos complete a 98-yard TD drive to tie the game at 17.
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Alright Seahawks! They crushed the Jaguars 41-0. Can anyone provide a few highlights?
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Are you kidding me? The Seahawks defense held MJD to 34 yards rushing? There must be a legion of fantasy players standing on ledges right now.
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Was there any research done on DVOA for teams coming off a bye week as opposed to teams coming off the regular week? Considering how the 49ers (who were decent, but not a "great" team) got decimated today, I'm wondering exactly how big a difference there is for a team given that much time to prepare.
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Both teams have made defensive stops since the Broncos tied the game. With two minutes to go, can the Patriots get within field goal range to give Gradkowski the opportunity to redeem his missed field goal from earlier in the game? Looks like we're in for an exciting finish.
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And, the answer is "No". The Patriots dodge one bullet and recover a fumble, but then the Broncos get a strip sack of Brady and recover that fumble.
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The Broncos have a madcap attempt to drive down the field, but the game goes to overtime. Denver wins the toss and will receive.
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wow, that's quite a turnaround. Brady fumbles after a fumble recovered.
Bronco's try to give it back, but manage to keep it.
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In before shitstorm about #24 going after Orton's legs...
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I was wondering if anyone was going to remark about that. Clearly he was blocked causing him to fall down. The roll into Orton was all his choice. No call. Refer back to rule above: that's just good, hard-nosed football hitting a QB (who doesn't have a Pro Bowl appearance or a SB win on his resume)!
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New England is going to need to find the pass rush they had at the beginning of the game if they're going to touch the ball in overtime.
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Every time the announcers say "Wild horses offense" I hear Mick Jagger in my head . . . and I really hate that song. I say we need a better name for the formation, one not associated with an awful song.
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Yeah, that's not the best Stones song. Of course, I don't like the Broncos, so I suggest "Wild Donkeys" or "Wild Asses".
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I don't understand why the Broncos are passing when they are already in field goal range.
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I don't think they have a lot of faith in Prater.
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Odd playcalling for Denver the last few plays.
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Passing deep while you can also just kick the game winning FG.
I found that a strange strategy too.
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And Denver wins on the FG in OT. Interesting game.
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The March of the Luckiest Team Ever continues!
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I don't think it's luck so much as playing overrated teams.
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I think it was Gary Player, the golfer, who said "the more I practice the luckier I get".
Not arguing that Denver haven't been lucky, but they kept their tougher games close enough for luck to matter, and put their weak opponents away far enough to stop bad luck from affecting them. That's really all they can do.
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And I don't mean to say that they would be sitting at 0-5 without luck or anything. They're probably better than I thought before the season, but they have gotten seemingly every bounce, every call, and every tip their way so far. And I'm a Broncos fan--I'll take lucky wins if we can get them.
By the way, I like the bouncing around McDaniels did after the game--it was rather fun to see a coach just admit he was glad they won a "special" game like that.
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Yeah, I am Broncos fan too.
They probably should be something like 4-1 (3-2 I reckon and they would have been slightly unlucky).
Mostly the way they play seems much better than the last few years, seem to keep heads in game and keeping plugging away. Seem to be making much better half-time adjustments than for years, and much less crazy gambling plays. I don't see this team losing many games they should win, and at the moment they are winning all the 50/50 games as well...
Sooner or later that will stop, but I think the way they've adjusted in games, they can likely just adjust between weeks and not fall apart. The defense especially doesn't seem to be smoke&mirrors unit that had a fast start a few years ago.
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When I was watching, and Denver was making some stupid plays (running into the kicker, being offsides on another punt attempt when they hadn't come close to blocking a punt today, and so what is the rush?), I was wondering if there is any way to measure "dumb plays." I am wondering if the best teams, like NE has been traditionally, cause more seemingly stupid plays by opponents because those opponents feel they need to do something special in order to beat the "great" team.
Of course, some plays are just brilliant moves by the "great" team, such as a hard count to get the offsides, or a holding penalty by a LT on a great opposing DE. But, I am wondering about just dumb plays, like 12 men in the huddle, or running into a kicker when you have no real chance to block the kick, or late hits to try to force a fumble, etc.
Anecdotally, I would think the best teams cause more stupidity in opponents, but perhaps we just hear that attributed to the situation by announcers, who say nothing when it happens against bad teams.
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I believe that FO tested to see if penalties correlated with wins/losses, and the conclusion was that they didn't. There was one exception that correlates with losses, delay of game.
So that is kind of a dumb play measurement.
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And every lucky break, too. Light getting injured during that game probably won the game for the Broncos.
The other question for the Broncos is how they're going to hold up over the season, of course. It's easy to come out high-energy and play above yourself when it's early in the season and you're fresh.
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I think a big part of people's misreading of the Broncos comes down to Bailey's health. The Broncos defense last year was very bad but only reached truly abysmal levels once Bailey was injured. At that point it became clear that they couldn't cover anyone and weren't big enough to stop the run either. Bailey is playing lights out this year and some of the other guys brought in to revitalise the D are in retrospect decent signings. If I had put more thought into it earlier in the year I might have spotted it but I have a minor irrational hatred of McDaniels so I didn't. Fields, Andre (a or e?) Davis, Dawkins etc., they might not be great players but they are probably an improvement over what they had before. I don't think anyone thought they were going to get as much out of Dulmervil as they have done (although most of his sacks are coming off double moves which is kind of a coverage sack).
I did always think that Orton could execute McDaniels' playbook excellently as it doesn't ask him to do anything he doesn't do pretty well but I have seen a lot more of him than most. I still think the team goes as far as Bailey's health can carry them.
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Ball game. Denver takes the kick, drives into field goal range, and kicks the game winner.
I think for the remaining Broncos games, there needs to be the sound of Calliope music playing in the background.
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The night cap is an AFC South divisional match up. I'm putting the over/under on the number of points the Colts score in the game at 40. The Colts offense has been scary good all year and the Titans defense has been offensive.
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OK, Belichick needs to do something about Springs. Denver targetted him on every single pass play in overtime (or nearly every). Whoever Springs was covering, that's who Orton went to - Royal, Marshall, whoever. And he was usually open by at least a step.
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I agree Springs looked awful, which is sort of sad since he's been a very good cornerback for a long time.
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There was a stretch earlier where Bodden was getting the same treatment.
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Yeah, I saw that too, but it seemed more like "wow, Bodden's been in on the play a bunch" for a stretch. It didn't seem like they were actually targeting Bodden, it's just the way the play went. Like, the pocket would start collapsing, and Orton would hit the hot route, and it'd be Bodden.
It was really, really obvious they were targeting Springs late in the game. He was getting targeted earlier, too, but by overtime you could figure out where the play was going pre-snap.
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Moss ends up joining a less-exclusive club of 43 players with at least one interception and at least one reception in a game. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/qkrmr
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Tony Scheffler did it a earlier this year, and with Brian Dawkins & Champ Bailey on the list too that must be the most players on that list playing in the same game for a decade or two...
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Especially because I did misspeak--it's 43 instances of that happening--some players have done it more than once (of course Deion Sanders did it 9 times by himself). There are actually 31 players.
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Cedric Benson is now starting on any fantasy team in any situation.
I can definitely believe the world will end in 2012
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I've been watching highlights on the NFL network, waiting to see my Seahawks. So, the first thing they show is Owen Schmitt, a Seahawks fullback, smacking his helmet into his forehead as he runs onto the field during introductions. The next shot is a close-up of Schmitt with blood streaming down his face from the gash he opened up in his forehead. Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the 2009 Seattle Seahawks.
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I really like Faith Hill's outfit this year.
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Indy starts out on offense. I predict a 3-play, 1:10 minute TD drive.
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There will be no more predictions from me. At least they didn't go 3 and out.
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Nasty collision between Griffith and Stevens for the Titans as they tried to make the tackle on the kickoff. It's good to see them both walk off the field.
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Stevens is out with a concussion.
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Michaels just announced that Stevens has been taken to a local hospital as a precautionary measure.
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Deleted double post. Sorry.
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Wow, Indy's #47 decided not to get lit up and stopped on the pass. I wonder if Manning will throw to him again.
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Early gamble for the Colts pays dividends as they get the TD on 4th and 1 from inside the 5-yard line. Gregg Easterbrook will be contrasting this play with the Ravens failure to go for it on 4th down at the end of their game.
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Ah, colts ST...
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No kidding. Almost gave it up again on the kickoff return.
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Uhm, shouldn't the NFL make a distinction between a light to decent push in the back, vs an actual real block in the back? That was hardly worth a penalty.
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No, no, no. C'mon Ugoh, block your man.
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I'm beginning to wonder: Is Ugoh short for "You go tackle my quarter back"?
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Now, that's more like it. 14-6 Colts.
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Are these refs getting paid by the flag? They sure have been on camera a lot.
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Good question, though I think the two roughing calls against the Titans were legit given the current rules. I think once Fisher sees the tape, he'll be unhappy again. On the play with the second roughing call, Ugoh was clearly holding, but it went uncalled.
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Let me ask you a different question. I know you're a Seahawks fan. Did you see the game? If so, can you tell me what stood out to you. From what little I've been able to see, the Seahawks were incredibly dominant. In fact, surprisingly so, to me.
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I like it. The Colts will happily let the Titans score FGs while they score TDs. Nice 2 minute drill by Manning to make it 21-9 Colts.
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It's amazing- you put this thread where people can find it, and it still gets lots of comments.
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Steady on..take out jayinalaska's posts and they'd be only about 50 comments :D
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So, the game's only half over. Refs being human and all, do you really want to be screaming at a ref about the job he's doing, professional or not?
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Yeah, that didn't sound like a particularly bright move to me either. Do you think he'll be fined?
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What great foot work. TD Colts.
On the previous play, Collinsworth lauds Wayne's blocking talent as the defender (#30) completely sheds Wayne's block and makes the tackle to prevent the TD. Now, I'm not knocking Wayne's blocking ability but rather Collinsworth using a play where Wayne got beat to demonstrate how good Wayne is.
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Gregg Easterbrook is ecstatic. The Titans go for it on 4th and 5 in the "Maroon Zone".
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Hey, isn't that a penalty or something? The Colts aren't allowed to play good special teams.
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And, even though they're at their 38-yard line with a minute to go in the third quarter, as the Titans punt, Gregg Easterbrook writes "Game over" in his note book.
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Vince Young is in the house.
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I've been popping over to the PHI/COL baseball game during commercials. I don't think I would want to be playing baseball in Denver tonight. They just said it's 31 degrees.
Some Interesting facts about 2 win or fewer teams
1) there are 17 teams with 2 or fewer wins....none of those 17 teams have beaten any team with 3 or more wins.
2) There are some seriously weak teams this year. 10 teams with 1 win or less:
Tenn, StL, KC, TB, Buff, Det, Oak, Clev, Car, Mia
The funny thing about those bottom ten. They have 6 wins total (6-42). Two of those wins came against Washington and 4 when they played each other.
Oh by the way - the plus/minus of these bottom 11
-540 pts...
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That... is exceptionally terrible. I wonder what dvoa records the nfl will manage to set this year.
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Subjectively, I'm not sure that the Cowboys aren't about as bad as at least some of those winless or one win teams, winning record or no. The Redskins are bloody awful too. Tennessee I'm slightly mystified by. They played tough against the Steelers (who I guess we still think are pretty good), Texans (who are certainly not great, but by no means awful either) and Jets (who I think may be very good indeed), but now seem to have mailed it in two weeks in a row. Have they just been demoralised by their disappointing start and given up? Thinking too of last season's Cardinals, is it possible that when a team can't be bothered for whatever reason, it shows up most prominently in their pass defense?
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Was Anderson's "performance" of record setting sucktitude for a winning QB?
A quick google found this:
Anderson's 11.8 completion percentage is the second-worst since the NFL-AFL merger for a winning quarterback with at least 15 pass attempts.
In 1970, Browns quarterback Don Gault was 1 of 16 (6.3 percent) in a victory over the Pittsburgh Steelers. He also threw 2 interceptions.
In 1974, Steelers quarterback Terry Hanratty was 2 of 15 (13.3 percent) against the Browns.
Bills legend Jim Kelly has the fourth-lowest completion percentage in a win. He went 4 of 21 (19 percent) to beat the Carolina Panthers in 1995.
In 1998 Ryan Leaf went 1 of 15 in a lose against the Chiefs, for 4 yards and 2 picks. (per wiki)
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At 280+ posts I guess the Gameday thread lives again.
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...if it's living, it's definitely residing in Alaska.
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Yeah there is that but at least he is keen.
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
I've lurked on the site for years. In past seasons, after the Sunday night game, I'd come to the site to see what the poster's here thought of the day's games. It was nice way to wind down from watching football all day. Then, the website changed this off season and no one was really posting in the game threads. So, I decided to play this weekend.
Maybe I played too much. Maybe you all think I'm a blithering idiot. Doesn't matter. For at least one week, I decided to take the Open Discussion Thread on my fingers and see how far I could carry it. I don't know if I could do it again, though. I think I'm going to have to see a doctor about carpal tunnel syndrome.
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
I don't think any one thinks you're an idiot, it's just a little funny how large a percentage of the posts you made.
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
You made an interesting lunch read for me. And let's face it, that is what counts.
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
So, no one is going to take pity on my poor fingers? Do I have to carry the thread tonight, too?
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
I don't think I've seen Miami wear the orange uniforms before. My first thought was they were some kind of throw backs, but the Jets aren't wearing throw backs. If Wikipedia can be believed, these are an alternate uniform for this year, and it was an alternate uniform in 2003-2004. I like them.
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
That was quite the nice drive for Miami to open the game. The pass from the "Wild Cat" formation was nifty.
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
I'm surprised how bad the Jets run D looked.
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
Wow, the Jets punter runs and gains 26 yards for a first down. It looks like he ran on his own. Wow!
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
And, in a sight that has Cleveland Browns fans across the country throwing up in their beers, Braylon Edwards actually holds onto a pass and completes the Jets answering TD drive. The drive was aided by a quasi-controversial defensive PI call on the Dolphins. I thought an argument could be made the ball was uncatchable.
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
felt like i was watching tecmo super bowl on that screen...
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
Jon Gruden just provided me with a couple of interesting insights. Leon Washington had a 9-yard run. Gruden went back and analyzed the replay and highlighted how the motion of the wide receiver froze Joey Porter, who had outside contain. Because Porter had to evaluate the receiver for a split second, it opened up a huge hole. After all the years I've watched football, you'd think I might have noticed something like that.
Then, a couple of minutes later, he starts extolling the coaching and teaching abilities of Bill Callahan, who's now the Jets Offensive Coordinator. Gruden called him the best line coach he had ever worked with. I found that interesting because the last I knew of Callahan, he was setting the Nebraska Cornhusker program back 10 years. I guess this is example 6,574 of how success as a position coach/coordinator does not guarantee success as a head coach.
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
Plus there's a big difference between coaching in college and the pros. Some guys are much better in college and some are much better in the pros. There haven't been very many who could do both well.
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
Two successful fake punts by the Jets now. Maybe they've been reading TMQ.
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
fake twice in one game? wow.