If you're a Football Outsider you're a TRUE player and true players don't stick to one passion only, so here's something else to excite you while you're waiting for the game to start. How about a free $30 chip to play slot machine games for as long as you want?
Start your discussion here on Turkey Day, and continue through the weekend with NFL action!
Posted by: Bill Barnwell on 26 Nov 2009
870 replies , Last at
01 Dec 2009, 2:48am by
anotherpatsfan
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by James-London :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 12:41pm
I'm unlikely to see any football this weekend, but Happy Thanksgiving!
Phil Simms is a Cretin.
263
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jebmak :: Fri, 11/27/2009 - 8:37am
NO FOOTBALL?! But that's unAmerican! Oh, wait...
485
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by NRG :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 5:33pm
You have missed a week that provided a lot of evidence for your thesis that Phil Simms is a cretin.
2
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Shane S. (not verified) :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 12:47pm
I'll be at my aunt and uncle's today, so won't be able to comment on the games. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone as well!
3
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by The Guy You Don't Want to Hear (not verified) :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 12:50pm
I can watch football today or study . . .
Oh, the Lions are on?! Hooray!
4
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 12:59pm
Who will join me in tossing 20 bucks (or a case of Sierra Nevada) into the hat, if raiderjoe will give us a play-by-play this afternoon?
22
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 1:56pm
Count me in, Will, even though I'll have to read it after the fact.
5
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Zach Long (not verified) :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 1:09pm
It would be so nice if the games were competitive. To bad I have to wait until 1:30 AM (I live in London) to see something interesting
6
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by The Guy You Don't Want to Hear (not verified) :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 1:28pm
I hate to admit it, but I don't mind Troy Aikman as an announcer. It's unfortunate that he's paired with Joe Buck. Couldn't they put Daryl Johnston with him and just make the worst announcing team in history instead of spreading the manure out?
The Packers fumble away the opening kickoff. What was that about their ST DVOA being 31?
8
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by coboney :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 1:38pm
A lie.
A big lie.
Don't they have ANYONE better then Jordy NElson?
17
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by ammek :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 1:49pm
Well, they do, but a) they're not very much better and b) they're either on injured reserve (Will Blackmon) or starting at cornerback (Tramon Williams).
Apparently, it's Charles Woodson day on Fox. We are hearing nonstop speeches about how great he is.
10
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by coboney :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 1:40pm
Pettigrew down with a knee injury of something.
On the play Stafford ran about 10 yards back - and Clay Matthews gets called on roughing the passer... on what should MAYBE have been a facemask. But if thats roughing the passer... whats a sack?
And the Packers get a rather short kick return that ends with an illegal block in the back penalty. Wow. This is an amazing display of special teams incompetence.
16
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Rocco :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 1:48pm
The Steelers are going to have to try hard to top this display of special teams suckitude. I'm terrified.
18
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by ammek :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 1:50pm
Penalties, crappy special teams, poor ball handling — the real Packers are back after a two-week hiatus of puzzling competence. Sacks to follow!
I didn't realize Brandon Jackson was still around.
The packers are just slowly, methodically marching down the field here.
26
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by ammek :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 2:01pm
Yes, Jackson's main role is as the target on the Holmgren-patented 'pointless screen on third-and-unrealistic'. He's actually a better chipper than you'd expect, and has only been penalized on special teams occasionally, making him one of the unit's stars.
21
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 1:54pm
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. I'll only be able to comment on the GB-DET game today, although I will see all three games.
Interesting start to the game. I certainly didn't expect GB to fumble away the opening KO and am a little surprised GB didn't hold DET to 3 points. But now GB has a nice little drive going.
After an 8-minute drive, the Packers will settle for a field goal. This is a frustrating team.
And, to prove again the crappiness of their special teams, they miss the field goal.
25
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by ammek :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 1:58pm
Crosby's career has mirrored Nick Folk's in a strange, not altogether positive way.
24
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 1:58pm
Well, well, well. Did the Packers get a letter from league HQ telling them to make the Lions look good today so the talk of the Lions having to give up their Thanksgiving Day game might die down? Inquiring minds want to know.
I think the Packers and the Steelers are creating the ultimate case studies in how important special teams really is. Give a team a good offense and a good defense but god-awful special teams and see how much it pulls them down.
The Packers are adding penalties to the mix, though.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by random drunk (not verified) :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 2:22pm
Its not a Packers punt/ kick return without a penalty for holding or block in the back! Firing the special teams coordinator last season and promoting from within proving to be a brilliant move.
A pass attempted to Jordy Nelson. Because we haven't seen enough of his explosiveness so far today.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 2:26pm
The "announcers" are going on about how Rodgers has not been touched today. The problems with the Packers o-line have been well documented. I haven't seen the Lions play this year. Has their pass rush been this putrid all year or has GB made the necessary adjustments to make their pass protection adequate? Or is it a little of both?
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by random drunk (not verified) :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 2:29pm
Packers have made small improvements in pass protection. Mainly from getting Tauscher back at RT. The Lions line is pretty horrible but they did sack Rodgers 5 times when the played earlier in the year.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by ammek :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 2:29pm
They got five sacks at Lambeau. Otherwise, putrid.
I've seen the Lions twice (against the Vikings both times). The first time they were able to get some pressure, the second time they probably could not have told you the QB's number at the end of the game, they'd seen so little of him. I don't know that it says much about them, though--more the Vikings' protection.
Jermichael Finley just took a vicious hit in the middle of the field and now is down.
52
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 2:31pm
I love it. Finley was able to stay in the game because of the penalty. Rodgers through him a little smoke screen and he gained almost 10 yards. Then, the Lions get flagged for a horse-collar tackle giving GB 1st and goal at the 8.
The Packers' special teams called for a 15-yard penalty on the kickoff. Amazing.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 2:38pm
You know, I'm a little surprised by the choice of music FOX has made for their military greetings. John Phillip Sousa wrote an incredible number of marches. Why did FOX have to pick the march associated with "Monty Python's Flying Circus"? I find it jarring for some reason.
Could be worse. I might not have been able to resist using Alice Cooper's "I Love America."
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave In Tucson (not verified) :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 8:58pm
I thought that was playing in-stadium; it didn't sound nearly as clear as any of Fox's other bumper music. (BTW, the name of the song is The Liberty Bell.)
D∈T
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by random drunk (not verified) :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 2:41pm
Stafford forgetting hes not still playing the Browns this week.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 2:43pm
Now that I've seen the replay of the second Stafford pick, I agree with Aikman that the receiver is at fault there for not trying to undercut the defender.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by random drunk (not verified) :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 2:46pm
Rarely say this but love the Packers offensive game plan so far. Very balanced with a lot of high percentage throws. Dominating time of posession and keeping D fresh on short week. Rodgers great as always on 3rd down, not forced to punt yet.
The Fox claymation turkey is absolutely terrifying. Seriously--I've never seen something creepier. It looks like something David Lynch would make up.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 3:20pm
Watching this half time show... I think to myself; Michael Jackson died to soon.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by PackerPete :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 3:21pm
Pat Summerall still has the great voice, but physically he looks on his last legs.
Jordy Nelson is the best option at kick return right now. He's actually had some good returns and a TD called back this season. Both Tramon Williams and Blackmon do too much dancing, which is okay with the chaos of a punt return. On the kick return, Nelson heads straight upfield and makes a cut and goes. He just lacks the killer speed.
If the special teams coach isn't fired the first day after the season ends, I may have to picket at Lambeau.
The Pride of the University of Colorado football program.
(Yes, I exaggerate. I am allowed to make fun of the school--I paid them about $38 000 to be able to do so.)
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 3:21pm
I've noticed that Detroit is not gang tackling at all. That wears down a defense real quick.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by PackerPete :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 3:22pm
According to Football Outsiders, Tramon Williams hasn't tackled a running back all season. Woodson, on the other hand, leads all CBs with solo tackles on RBs, by a good margin. And a pick by Woodson!
77
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 3:22pm
Incredible interception by Charles Woodson.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 3:23pm
I don't know what's wrong with Culpepper, but it was time to bench Stafford 1 quarter ago. Whether this stands or not, he's not going to win this game.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by random drunk (not verified) :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 3:25pm
When Al Harris went down for the season I said, 'well atleast it wasn't Woodson'. Thats why.
81
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by PackerPete :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 3:25pm
I've got Rodgers and Grant in my fantasy league. This red zone inefficiency is ruining my holiday! If this interception holds up, I need points! My team can't afford to waste the Lions' defense!
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by PackerPete :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 3:27pm
Well, Packers can't live with good field position. The O Line is starting with the stupid penalties.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by random drunk (not verified) :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 3:27pm
And the packers cant get a play off before committing a penalty. Seems about right.
84
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by PackerPete :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 3:29pm
Packers should go for it on 4th and 2. Crosby is questionable, and the Packers need to make a statement. Good for McCarthy!
Is it sad that William James's name is announced and I immediately think, "How cool would it be to have the same name as the founder of American psychology?"
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 3:35pm
I don't know if sad is the word I'd use. No offense, but the word strange is what pops into my mind.
Jordy Nelson gets nothing on the return from the 10. I had to wait until after the commercial started to say anything, since that's usually followed by a Green Bay penalty.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 3:36pm
Rodgers to Driver for 46-yards off of play action. That was a very nice play.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 3:53pm
Methinks they can do that all day and expect some more this game. Lions safeties suck.
92
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by PackerPete :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 3:36pm
The announcing team's pregame Stafford lovefest has subsided as he is playing like a rookie against a top defense rather than playing the Browns. Packers have blitzed a few times, but seem content to bring Matthews off the corner and let Stafford make bad throws.
Really haven't seen Finley work the hash marks deep like Vernon Davis did several times against the Packers last week. When Finley gets downfield, he typically does it from the slot or out wide. Might get a better match up on a LB if running the route from the TE position.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 3:39pm
Well, the Packers are in the red zone again. Time for the drive to stall.
I hadn't realized this until just a minute ago, but Donald Driver is (a) the Packers' all-time franchise leader in receptions and (b) not impossibly far from the all-time franchise receiving yardage lead (964 yards shy of James Lofton coming into the week).
The Packers are now without Chad Clifton. Anyone who suits up for their offensive line should get some sort of hazardous duty pay.
104
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 3:50pm
Unfortunately, I think the Seattle Seahawks offensive linemen have drained that account over the last few years.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by ammek :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 3:51pm
I'm still not sure the Pack has a #1 defense, even in this season of middling defensive performance, but one thing is for sure — the turnaround against the run has been astonishing, as impressive as anything Denver or New Orleans has done. Teams were running right through the Packers last season. Capers and very good health — up until now, Cullen? — have been responsible.
The Ever-Incredible Joe Buck says Jenkins will be back--just had the wind knocked out of him.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by PackerPete :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 3:55pm
The front line has some bulk, but some speed and quickness, also. Jenkins shut down a couple of screens has week with smart reads and quickness. Raji has blown up a couple of plays today, and the first one was more quickness than muscle.
106
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 3:53pm
Great coverage by Bush there. In real-time, it looked to me like Stafford was throwing to Bush, but on the replay I saw the great break Bush got. It should have been another pick of Stafford. Then, Hanson missed the long FGA.
107
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by PackerPete :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 3:53pm
Packers with good field position after Hansen's miss. Time to put the foot on the gas and put the game away decidedly. We've been outplayed three straight fourth quarters by Tampa, Dallas, and San Fran.
TD from Rodgers to James Jones. Didn't look to me like he made it at first, but on replay it looks like he did.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 3:59pm
Rodgers to Jones for the Packers TD. Rodgers showed some good pocket awareness and movement on the play.
114
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by random drunk (not verified) :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:00pm
With 14 points in this 3rd quarter. The packers have nearly matched their yearly total of 3rd quarter points (22).
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by PackerPete :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:01pm
Best third quarter in a while for the Packers. Took control of the game. Rodgers is really, really good, so smooth he's often overlooked. McCarthy noted on his weekly TV show that Rodgers hasn't gotten a game ball all season, yet he's clearly the best offensive player and matched only by Woodson as the best player on the team. Rodgers will play another ten years. Packers will be blessed with two fantastic quarterbacks covering a quarter century.
116
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:01pm
The Packers have a pretty comfortable lead. I wonder if they'll bring in Matt Flynn.
That was a nice individual effort by Northcutt on that long pass play for the Lions.
All of a sudden, the Lions come alive on offense. Can they cash in?
123
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by PackerPete :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:10pm
I'd keep Rodgers in. The Packers need to play action on first and second to keep moving the chains. The running game and Grant aren't good enough to keep the drive going when the other team is expecting the run. Rodgers makes enough completions that an occasional incomplete isn't a killer. Plus, the Pack has a huge lead.
125
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by random drunk (not verified) :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:11pm
Time for the Defense to continue their typical 4th quarter free fall and MM to get ultra conservative with a lead.
Were they throwing because Kevin Smith had just gone off?
129
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by random drunk (not verified) :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:15pm
Horrible throw by Stafford there. On 4th down you have to atleast throw it in the general area of your receiver and try to let him make a play.
130
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by PackerPete :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:15pm
For all the grief that Hawk is getting this season, Barnett hasn't made many game changing plays, although he finally looked good blitzing against San Fran last week. The local radio shows complain that Hawk should be a bigger impact for a fifth round draft pick, but they miss the point that Hawk didn't pick himself fifth: Thompson took him fifth. If Thompson had picked Hawk in the fourth round, everyone would be quite please with Hawk's steady play for a 4th rounder. Overall, both inside backers are playing okay, helped considerably by a very solid D line.
I think that's probably the right answer, but I would wonder about it and, since I would wonder and challenges are NEVER 100% sure, I would probably decide against challenging.
134
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:17pm
Nice second effort by Grant to avoid the safety on 1st down.
Then, on second down, the Lions d-line wins the LOS and tackle Grant in the end zone. I think Grant was down, so it should be a safety. The refs said Grant fumbled and Detroit recovered for a TD. I think McCarthy will win his challenge.
135
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by PackerPete :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:18pm
Again, why not throw the ball there? (Grant's shoulder hits the ground before he fumbles in the end zone.) The Packers can't run against a defense expecting the run. Play action and let Rodgers throw it. I don't understand McCarthy at times. In tough spots, use your best players and your best unit.
142
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by ammek :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:24pm
Rodgers has given up his share of safeties and fumbles recently.
Given the Pack's kick coverage woes, would it have been better to give up the TD there and take possession, rather than conceding a safety and then handing the Lions the ball in Packer territory?
148
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:27pm
I thought it very strange he came back with a similar play to the same side of the line after nearly giving up the safety on 1st down. A play action pass to the TE running up the seam seems to me to have a high probability of success in that situation.
137
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:20pm
from the one, you really can't run it into the endzone in 3 plays? Give the ball to your struggling rookie QB against a veteran secondary?
He escapes with a safety. Ball back. Second chance.
18 points. 3 TDS. 2 TDs, one 2 point and a FG.
138
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:21pm
Wooo, Safety!
246
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Arkaein :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 9:52pm
Fun fact: I believe this is the second time this season that GB has won a challenge with the intent of getting a safety for the other team (instead of a TD), first was against Minnesota.
140
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:22pm
I dislike Joe Buck so much that I was ready to argue with him when he said it was a good challenge. Then, I remembered that GB had challenged, not DET, so yes it was a good challenge. I feel sullied that I actually have to acknowledge Buck was right about something.
by random drunk (not verified) :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:32pm
Holy shyt a quick throw for a 5 yard gain! That coulda worked when we were on the 1yd line...
160
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:36pm
Pick 6, Woodson. He was covering Calvin Johnson again.
161
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:36pm
Lost the game when they didn't bench Stafford in half time.
168
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:40pm
I was very surprised he even played at all. I'm not saying the ultimate outcome would be any different if Culpepper had played, but Detroit would have had more play calling options in the red zone, I think. I can't help but wonder if a Culpepper QB draw might not have scored a TD on one of the Lions red zone possessions.
162
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by PackerPete :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:36pm
That opening throw is exactly what I'm saying. A five yard gain on first, the clock keeps running. Then we run twice for three yards and a punt. An incompletion on second doesn't matter if a third down pass picks up the first and the Packers get another set of downs.
Woodson is beyond studly. That evens the score as Johnson 6, Woodson 6.
Woodson picks off Stafford and returns for a TD. I might be concerned, if I'm Detroit, that Stafford ran after him with his injury.
164
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by random drunk (not verified) :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:37pm
WOOOOOOOODSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!! And he throws in a Heisman pose like he did 13 years ago at Michigan.
165
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by ammek :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:38pm
Amazing (and a bit worrying) how dependent the Packers are on Woodson, Driver, Tauscher and Clifton.
169
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by PackerPete :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:42pm
Most teams are reliant on those positions--offensive tackles, shutdown corner, quarterback, top receiver. Very few teams have more than adequate depth at those positions. It's the stars that win the games.
179
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by ammek :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:50pm
The Packers, however, have no depth at those positions, except at WR, where Jennings ought to have surpassed Driver, but hasn't.
QB was different — Rodgers was groomed to take over from some old guy. Who's being groomed at corner or tackle?
186
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by PackerPete :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 5:24pm
Lang has been adequate as a backup tackle and likely could move into the RT spot. Tramon Williams will be a good replacement for Harris. I think jennings sees more double coverage than Driver, which has slowed Jennings this year. I don't think the packers are any worse off depth-wise than other teams.
Upon further reflection, maybe MM was trying to pad his challenge stats.
171
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by random drunk (not verified) :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:43pm
Can you have a better day then Woodson? He donated $2 million to the new U of Michigan Children's and Women's Hospital earlier in the day, and now has 1 INT for every Million donated.
178
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by random drunk (not verified) :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 4:48pm
I think Woodson hit for the cycle... Sack, INT, FF, FR, TD.
The Raiders end up stopping the Cowboys, who kick a field goal. With Oakland's offense, that could be the game-winner right there.
193
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by NRG :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 5:52pm
FO IRC is down?
194
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Dales :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 5:54pm
I can't seem to connect either, so it is not you.
266
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by joe football (not verified) :: Fri, 11/27/2009 - 7:46pm
Mike's server tends to go down at the slightest provocation, so when he's gone(as I think he is for thanksgiving) and not around to bring it back up when the cat chews through some wires or whatever, there is no IRC
Do they really have to call him "Academy Award-winner Robert de Niro," as though anyone who would care at all doesn't know who he is? I would bet that 2/3 of the people who will see that commercial can even name both of the movies he won Oscars for.
Dallas temporarily has a TD on a long catch by Austin, but it's under a booth review. The announcers feel certain he's down, but it doesn't look like it to me, so who knows.
When they showed the view from the endzone, it didn't look (at least to me) like the ankle, etc. were down, so I wasn't sure if you could say they were because of that side view. They only showed that view once, I think, though, so I easily could have been wrong.
212
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 6:43pm
Wow. Cool stuff.
After they denied Austin his TD I said to a friend "they will give it to him on a screen, but not on the first play, they'll expect it. But on the second they'll screen to him to give him the TD."
whaaha.
You must now provide evidence that you are not, in fact, Jerry Jones.
217
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 6:47pm
now c'mon now, no one would never mistake me for that stinkin' jerry jones fella, who are you kiddin' that guy has eyes like angelina jolie has lips. That's just scary.
Romo finds Witten for 38 yards to start the 2nd half. He took a couple of minutes to get going, but he looks fine now (though the Raiders are getting pretty good pressure on him).
227
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 7:13pm
... or the cowboys miss blocks. They leave 7 or 6 blocking a lot and still they can't pick up guys through the middle.
229
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by NRG :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 7:16pm
Is giving up a first down something to celebrate, jay ratliff?
230
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 7:21pm
Olshanski. The only Soviet born player to play in the NFL.
You gotta love it.
Raiders are driving. It is more sputtering and huffing than driving, but they somehow resemble an offense.
3 years. He sits on the bench in Oakland next year, gets cut, goes elsewhere, sits on the bench for a year, then gets a chance to start a game or two the next season and still looks awful, and then goes home.
238
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by NRG :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 7:45pm
Very good analogy, actually. Pretty similar conventional stats, with boller having played more games.
But I feel those guys are just about the same. I think David Carr is better than both of them.
240
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by NRG :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 7:55pm
Boller must've gotten some more reps since someone updated his wiki. not shocking. I think carr is better than both of them, too. Too bad he got ruined by being sacked so much earlier in his career.
241
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 8:00pm
I don't know. Did he get ruined? I thought he survived them pretty well. He's not "#1 material" but he sure was a capable QB. He could play for Buffalo or hahahahahahaha or hahahahaha sorry or Carr could play for whaaaaaahahahahahaha ... oh man that's funny. He could play for eh oh man whooooo. He could play for the ... the Brownies??
243
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by NRG :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 8:07pm
He played 4 games for Carolina in 07, going 1-3, so probably not them. He doesn't make enough money for Daniel Snyder to want him. maybe he'll go to the raiders?
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 8:05pm
but moneywise and statuswise he is like David Carr. So expect him to land in Jacksonville to fill seats. Or Washington. And he will not have 2 years, but 3 years to prove himself. Maybe even 4 when he has a fluke good year, like Eli Manning had. (but kid you not, he will never win a Duper Bowl. If he does I'll marry my mother)
245
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by kiddingyourself (not verified) :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 9:48pm
I'm looking at this site, knowing it is based in Boston, and seeing a 3 (should be 4) loss New England team ranked ahead of two 10-0 teams and a 9-1. So much for credibility. Look up "OBJECTIVITY" in Funk and Wagnalls.....what a joke.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 10:06pm
You must be new. I will fill in the proper form for you.
Here we go:
New England is clearly ranked too high because you are biassed. Team's win loss record is way better than this. So much for credibility. Look up "OBJECTIVITY" in Funk and Wagnalls.....what a joke.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymouse (not verified) :: Fri, 11/27/2009 - 4:43am
What does this have to do with the discussion of Week 12 football?
Oh, wait, you're trolling. Forget I asked.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Harris :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 10:03pm
My God, Rocky Bernard is fat. Even for a DT, he's fat. He's heading into Pat Williams/Orca/Galactus territory.
Hail Hydra!
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 10:04pm
A lot of Orton's passes are getting tipped at the line. I wonder if that happens to him more often than other QBs, or if the Giants defense is good at it.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 10:09pm
Most underrated skill in football. Swap down passes as a Dlineman. That and identifying screens as a linebacker.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 10:12pm
This year's nationwide question will be:
Who IS the Mike?
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Harris :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 10:14pm
Before you mic a coach, NFLN, you really should make she he's on delay. McDaniels dropped at least three F-bombs in about 15 seconds.
Hail Hydra!
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 10:17pm
I don't care. Fuck.
[edit]
Yeah ok. Kids are listening...
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 10:15pm
How long until all kickers kick it through the end zone and the league will abandon the kickoff?
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by NRG :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 10:42pm
Not soon enough.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Micranot (not verified) :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 10:16pm
Submission for QOW: "ALL WERE TRYING TO DO IS WIN A MOTHERF*CKING BALLGAME!"
- Josh McDaniels, mic'ed up on the sideline on national television.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Harris :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 10:21pm
Corey Webster, you just made the poster.
Hail Hydra!
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by morganja :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 10:31pm
What is up with these officials? How many mistakes can they make in one half of play?
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Rocco :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 11:06pm
Terrell Thomas may have saved the day for the Giants. That throw by Orton was terible.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Harris :: Thu, 11/26/2009 - 11:31pm
Danny Ware got KTFO.
Hail Hydra!
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Dr. Mooch :: Fri, 11/27/2009 - 1:55am
Ok, tell me where I'm wrong, because I'm just looking at the NFL box score numbers.
NY lost this game. 40 pass attempts means somebody f'ed up the plan, or panicked.
Denver's running game was good, but not very good. The Moreno line of 19 for 88 is pretty impressive, but Buckhalter running 20 for 51 is not. If you want to argue that the running game dominated, I suppose you start from 19 for 88 with a long of 12 = great average runs for Knowshon.
Denver's pass D probably made the game.
This is a sloppy game. NY couldn't capitalize on 8 (for 61, compared to 4 for 45) penalties by their opponent, and the combined tally is 7/25 on third down. The winner of this game was bound to be whoever could void their bowels without badly staining their clothing.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Fri, 11/27/2009 - 4:27pm
I could argue that Denver's rush D made the game. With 3:28 left in the first half, Brandon Jacobs had 3 rushes for 3 yards. Though, yeah, the pass D was good too. Eli only had 5.8 YPA, and a lot of his yardage was in garbage time when the Broncos were way ahead.
Weak game for the Giants' offense.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by morganja :: Fri, 11/27/2009 - 3:18pm
Unless you look at it from the other perspective, which is Denver's defense really showed up and dominated. I don't know why the Giants didn't run more and try to wear out the smaller Denver defense on a short week. OC's seem to outguess themselves too much. But as a neutral observer I thought that of the four units, the Denver defense was the story of the game.
If you include five units, however, the NFL refs had the wosrt game. They made so many mistakes it was lucky most of the country couldn't watch it. I'm guessing they feasted before the game because they mis-called almost everything, as if they were trying to keep up with a game going too fast for them.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by MJK :: Fri, 11/27/2009 - 9:25pm
Wow, for the first time in FO outsiders history, I actually agree with everything morganja just said.
I'll add one thing, though. While the Denver defense was the story of the game, the Denver special teams (and especially thier kicker) deserves honorable mention. How many touchbacks was that? And when the Giants did run it out, they rarely got by the 20... Not to mention being perfect on a lot of FG attempts (although that speaks more to the ineptitude of the Denver red zone offense).
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by PatsFan :: Sat, 11/28/2009 - 6:27pm
Pats claim to have 17 questionables:
OUT
RB Fred Taylor (ankle)
QUESTIONABLE
WR Sam Aiken (hip)
LB Eric Alexander (groin)
TE Chris Baker (shoulder)
OLB Tully Banta-Cain (groin)
NT Ron Brace (ankle)
S Pat Chung (head)
WR Julian Edelman (forearm)
DE Jarvis Green (knee)
OT Nick Kaczur (ankle)
C Dan Koppen (knee)
OT Matt Light (knee)
RB Sammy Morris (knee)
G Stephen Neal (head)
LB Rob Ninkovich (knee)
OT Sebastian Vollmer (head)
DE Ty Warren (ankle)
OLB Pierre Woods (groin)
PROBABLE
QB Tom Brady (right shoulder)
CB Shawn Springs (knee)
TE Benjamin Watson (knee)
(Note that Vollmer hasn't practiced in two days, so he's probably legitimately questionable.)
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by just another dumb homer (not verified) :: Sat, 11/28/2009 - 8:39pm
That's some serious respect he has for the Saints, or something.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sat, 11/28/2009 - 10:04pm
Congratulations to Logan Mankins, the only starting offensive lineman not listed as questionable (and that includes three tackles)!
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sat, 11/28/2009 - 10:11pm
thoughts on the HoF semifinalists?
Jerry Rice and Emmitt Smith are certainly getting in.
Other candidates are
Cliff Branch, WR – 1972-1985 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders
Tim Brown, WR/KR – 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Cris Carter, WR – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins
Don Coryell, Coach – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers
Roger Craig, RB – 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings
Terrell Davis, RB – 1995-2001 Denver Broncos
Dermontti Dawson, C – 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers
Richard Dent, DE – 1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles
Chris Doleman, DE/LB – 1985-1993, 1999 Minnesota Vikings, 1994-95 Atlanta Falcons, 1996-98 San Francisco 49ers
Kevin Greene, LB/DE – 1985-1992 Los Angeles Rams, 1993-95 Pittsburgh Steelers, 1996, 1998-99 Carolina Panthers, 1997 San Francisco 49ers
Russ Grimm, G – 1981-1991 Washington Redskins
Ray Guy, P – 1973-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders
Charles Haley, DE/LB – 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboys
Lester Hayes, CB – 1977-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders
Rickey Jackson, LB – 1981-1993 New Orleans Saints, 1994-95 San Francisco 49ers
Cortez Kennedy, DT – 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks
Art Modell, Owner – 1961-1995 Cleveland Browns, 1996-2003 Baltimore Ravens
John Randle, DT – 1990-2000 Minnesota Vikings, 2001-03 Seattle Seahawks
Andre Reed, WR – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins
Shannon Sharpe, TE – 1990-99, 2002-03 Denver Broncos, 2000-01 Baltimore Ravens
Paul Tagliabue, Commissioner – 1989-2006 National Football League
Steve Tasker, Special Teams/WR – 1985-86 Houston Oilers, 1986-1997 Buffalo Bills
Aeneas Williams, CB/S – 1991-2000 Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals, 2001-04 St. Louis Rams
I suspect there will be a lot of support for Cris Carter and Tim Brown.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Sifter :: Sat, 11/28/2009 - 11:01pm
I like TD - Terrell Davis. Had a great peak in his career and in my mind is certainly 'famous' enough to get in a Hall of Fame. But the voters like longevity so who knows? Emmitt getting in may not help his case either.
Interesting guy to me on that list is Steve Tasker. How many special teamers are there in the HOF? Any? I know Ray Guy is nominated, but are there any guys who played kick coverage? Seems a bit of a stretch to me.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by BroncosGuy (not verified) :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 12:07am
Cliff Branch, WR – 1972-1985 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders No.
Tim Brown, WR/KR – 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
hmmmm, not a gimme, but deserving of more research. I'll get back to you.
Cris Carter, WR – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins Please see Brown, Tim.
Don Coryell, Coach – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers. No.
Roger Craig, RB – 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings Highly under-rated football player. But HOF? No.
Terrell Davis, RB – 1995-2001 Denver Broncos My screen name reveals my bias and, yet, no. His peak was the highest of any of his era (Barry Sanders lovers, please stifle), but his peak was only three seasons long. On pure talent he makes it, on career accomplishment he falls short.
Dermontti Dawson, C – 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers Awesome center; I need more time with this one.
Richard Dent, DE – 1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles Oh, goodness gracious, no. Why is he on this list? Well, I know why, its because sports writers don't know football, but they do know how to count. And sacks are a counting statistic. The reality is Dent was a one-trick pony, a pass-rush specialist who succeeded because he played with Dan Hampton and Steve McMichael. If Dent had played for any other team he would have been written off as a smallish end who couldn't play the run.
Chris Doleman, DE/LB – 1985-1993, 1999 Minnesota Vikings, 1994-95 Atlanta Falcons, 1996-98 San Francisco 49ers I need to spend a little more time with Doleman; if entertainment value counts, he's in.
Kevin Greene, LB/DE – 1985-1992 Los Angeles Rams, 1993-95 Pittsburgh Steelers, 1996, 1998-99 Carolina Panthers, 1997 San Francisco 49ers No, not even close. Very good player, to be sure.
Russ Grimm, G – 1981-1991 Washington Redskins No. I like Russ Grimm, he was an outstanding player. And I generally promote the argument that a player's position should not be held against him. If he was one of the top two of his generation at his position, he should be in. But OG is an exception. Too often, a guard is a guy who simply was not talented enough to be a tackle (see Gallery, Robert).
Ray Guy, P – 1973-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders Normally, I'm not a big fan of specialists as HOF; Guy is the exception.
Charles Haley, DE/LB – 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboy No.
Lester Hayes, CB – 1977-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders Oh, goodness, no. Possibly the most over-rated corner in history. Good teams game-planned to attack him, because he was shaky and Haynes was great. Does that sound like a hall-of-famer?
Rickey Jackson, LB – 1981-1993 New Orleans Saints, 1994-95 San Francisco 49ers The kind of guy I want to vote for, but probably a little short, no pun intended.
Cortez Kennedy, DT – 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks Man, this is hard. A great DT; was he elite in his generation? Not sure. Need more research.
Art Modell, Owner – 1961-1995 Cleveland Browns, 1996-2003 Baltimore Ravens N/A. Stands for Non-Athlete.
John Randle, DT – 1990-2000 Minnesota Vikings, 2001-03 Seattle Seahawks No. Again, if entertainment value counts, it helps his cause. Outstanding player, but not a HOF player. Am I the only only who doesn't remember Seattle?
Andre Reed, WR – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins I love Andre Reed, but there are too many other superlative WRs in his generation. If he makes it, I will not shout to the Gods. But, if I voted, I would have to reluctantly pass.
Shannon Sharpe, TE – 1990-99, 2002-03 Denver Broncos, 2000-01 Baltimore Ravens Duh. Only sports writers could make this a two-year question.
Paul Tagliabue, Commissioner – 1989-2006 National Football League N/A.
Steve Tasker, Special Teams/WR – 1985-86 Houston Oilers, 1986-1997 Buffalo Bills Uh, no. Nice open-field tackler on kick coverage. That is not a HOF-er.
Aeneas Williams, CB/S – 1991-2000 Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals, 2001-04 St. Louis Rams Oh, hell yeah. Have you watched football at all?
My tally, I think, is 3 "yes" and 4 "maybe". But there are not 7 yes-votes available to the actual committee. This is a hard process.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave In Tucson (not verified) :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 5:31am
WRT Chris Carter, he's got the 2nd most career receptions, and 2nd most career touchdowns (link). He'll get in.
I suspect Tim Brown will have to wait for a year without so much competition.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 12:27pm
No To Art Modell. He should be burned at the stake or what he did to Cleveland. Let's pass a new rule. No Owners who moved their teams can get into the HoF.
For the record, I'm not from Cleveland and I don't like the Browns.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by The Guy You Don't Want to Hear (not verified) :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 1:57pm
I would say yes to Cliff Branch (Can't my college have ONE Hall of Famer?), Cris Carter, Dermontti Dawson, Chris Doleman, and Don Coryell.
As to the rest:
Tim Brown--I think five is all I can take--he would be next in line and probably belongs in. One of the few Raiders I could never bring myself to hate.
Roger Craig--Just proof of Bill Walsh's genius.
Terrell Davis--I change my mind all the time, because he was incredible for a few years, but he just didn't last long.
Richard Dent--I think Broncosguy took care of that one.
Kevin Greene--Another one-trick pony, as far as I could tell (and I do actually remember a good chunk of his career).
Russ Grimm--Didn't play long and by all accounts had a short peak. He also suffered through a lot of injuries in the second half of his career. If Terrell Davis doesn't go in, Russ Grimm definitely doesn't go in.
Ray Guy--Hahahahahahaha--A punter?!
Charles Haley--Same as Kevin Greene.
Lester Hayes--Is he seriously under consideration?
Rickey Jackson--I so want to support him, but I just can't find a way to.
Cortez Kennedy--He's a borderline case, but again a pretty short career.
John Randle--I wouldn't argue with putting him in, but he was something of a product of the system.
Andre Reed--He just wasn't good enough.
Shannon Sharpe--His numbers look great because he was really a big WR instead of a tight end. I'm sure fellow Broncos fans will hate me for it, but I'm not behind Sharpe.
Steve Tasker--I'm not putting a special teamer in. Maybe it's unfair, but I just don't see how you argue for a pure special teamer.
Aeneas Williams--He was a great player, but I'm calling him just a little short.
So, I'd say Williams, Randle, and Tim Brown are basically wait-listed with the five above in for now if I were in charge.
Of course, if I were in charge, the list would be different to begin with.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by BroncosGuy (not verified) :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 7:16pm
You're right. I hate you.
Well, no, I don't really, but I disagree with you on Sharpe. If you have any video from the Broncos' SB era, watch Sharpe specifically and you will see he was an outstanding blocker, probably the best of his era among "regular" TEs (as opposed to second-string blocking specialists who only play on short-yardage sets).
If you insist on a Buffalo, why not Dick Anderson? Better player, plus not a Raider.
And Cris Carter and Tim Brown will both get, if not this year then soon. The committee loves it some counting stats.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by The Guy You Don't Want to Hear (not verified) :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 7:24pm
Dick Anderson wasn't on the list! But I think Cliff Branch was an all-time great who doesn't really get his due. Despite being a Raider.
If I can just pick someone to be our rep, I actually would easily pick Matt Lepsis, but he has no shot.
I think you may be overselling Sharpe as a blocker, but I also could be underselling him. I thought he was an okay blocker. And I don't have film from then to watch, so I'm just basing that on memory. I just really discount those receiving numbers because of how he was utilized overall, such that he's really a poor man's Art Monk in my mind. He was still very, very good at least, but I don't see Hall of Fame for a poor man's Art Monk. I wouldn't complain about him going in, though.
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backup irc server
by dbt :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 10:54am
Channel #fo, server cognet.catch22.org.
Come by and mock Fnor for not having a reliable internet connection!
... and also discuss football
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Re: backup irc server
by bubqr :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 1:23pm
Not working for me !
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Re: backup irc server
by dbt :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 3:18pm
what's the error? :( I see lots of people on now.
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Re: backup irc server
by NRG :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 1:37pm
I am on cognet, but the #fo channel isn't coming up for me at 12:37 eastern time on Sunday.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by IsraelP (not verified) :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 12:07pm
Pittsburgh ESPN just announced that they'll be interviewing Adam Schantz of Football Outsiders.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by bubqr :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 1:24pm
What about Bob Bornwill ?
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 1:51pm
So, I'm supposed to have SEA-STL and IND-HOU for the early games and CHI-MIN for the late game. I suppose the IND-HOU game is the most compelling, but I'll start with SEA-STL since I'm a Seahawks fan and the Rams are a team we can actually beat. I'm not sure how long I'll be able to stomach the game, though.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by NRG :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 1:57pm
At least you'll get to see Steven Jackson and Justin Forsett, which is better than watching Kenneth Darby/Samkon Gado and Julius Jones.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by The Guy You Don't Want to Hear (not verified) :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 2:01pm
I would never pass up an opportunity to see Steven Jackson. Of course, I don't have such an "opportunity" today. I get Ind@Hou and Was@Phi early and Chi@Min late. I will be watching Indy and Houston when I have the choice.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 2:04pm
1st play: Hasselbeck sacked.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by bubqr :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 2:05pm
Eagles surprise onside to open the game... Fail. Like it though.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 2:06pm
Seattle goes 3 and out after a short Forsett run and a Forsett incompletion on dump pass.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by The Guy You Don't Want to Hear (not verified) :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 2:06pm
The Texans start moving the ball in very short chunks on the ground, then decide to throw one pass and get a big gain to Andre Johnson. Johnson was wide open and Schaub threw about 4 feet over his head for some reason.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 2:07pm
Steven Jackson's first touch: 25 yards
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 2:09pm
For the half dozen or so of you who don't know, Rams starting QB Marc Bulger is out for a few weeks. The Rams QB today is Kyle Boller.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by CathyW :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 2:10pm
Even the Redskins can score a TD when they only have 19 yards to go. WTF was Andy Reid thinking?
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by The Guy You Don't Want to Hear (not verified) :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 2:12pm
by The Guy You Don't Want to Hear (not verified) :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 2:10pm
The Texans are at the two yard line and promptly get an offside penalty.
So Schaub throws a TD to Leach. Texans up 7-0.
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jayinalaska :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 2:12pm
On 4th and 1 from the SEA 29, STL attempts a 46-yard FG. This decision earns a smattering of boos from the crowd. Then, Josh Brown missed the FG and the crowd appeared to sit in numbed silence. Still 0-0 after a possession by each team
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by NRG :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 2:14pm
Damn. Ricky Williams threw a pick. Just pound him into the endzone, for god's sake! He was averaging over 6 YPC. Keep running him rather than trickeration in the red zone!
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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 11/29/2009 - 2:17pm
This way we can have a debate about who'd the worse QB, Ricky Williams or Ryan Fitzpatrick.
RSS Feed
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I'm unlikely to see any football this weekend, but Happy Thanksgiving!
Phil Simms is a Cretin.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
NO FOOTBALL?! But that's unAmerican! Oh, wait...
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
You have missed a week that provided a lot of evidence for your thesis that Phil Simms is a cretin.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I'll be at my aunt and uncle's today, so won't be able to comment on the games. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone as well!
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I can watch football today or study . . .
Oh, the Lions are on?! Hooray!
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Who will join me in tossing 20 bucks (or a case of Sierra Nevada) into the hat, if raiderjoe will give us a play-by-play this afternoon?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Count me in, Will, even though I'll have to read it after the fact.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
It would be so nice if the games were competitive. To bad I have to wait until 1:30 AM (I live in London) to see something interesting
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I hate to admit it, but I don't mind Troy Aikman as an announcer. It's unfortunate that he's paired with Joe Buck. Couldn't they put Daryl Johnston with him and just make the worst announcing team in history instead of spreading the manure out?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
The Packers fumble away the opening kickoff. What was that about their ST DVOA being 31?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
A lie.
A big lie.
Don't they have ANYONE better then Jordy NElson?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Well, they do, but a) they're not very much better and b) they're either on injured reserve (Will Blackmon) or starting at cornerback (Tramon Williams).
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Apparently, it's Charles Woodson day on Fox. We are hearing nonstop speeches about how great he is.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Pettigrew down with a knee injury of something.
On the play Stafford ran about 10 yards back - and Clay Matthews gets called on roughing the passer... on what should MAYBE have been a facemask. But if thats roughing the passer... whats a sack?
Detroit automitic first down inside the 5.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
He walked off, but was limping heavily.
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Yep - hopefully he's ok.
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Questionable--Knee Injury
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Calvin Johnson with a TD. Good throw by Stafford.
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And nice play there to get a score by Stafford to Johnson. Lions 7 - Packers 0.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
And the Packers get a rather short kick return that ends with an illegal block in the back penalty. Wow. This is an amazing display of special teams incompetence.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
The Steelers are going to have to try hard to top this display of special teams suckitude. I'm terrified.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Penalties, crappy special teams, poor ball handling — the real Packers are back after a two-week hiatus of puzzling competence. Sacks to follow!
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I didn't realize Brandon Jackson was still around.
The packers are just slowly, methodically marching down the field here.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Yes, Jackson's main role is as the target on the Holmgren-patented 'pointless screen on third-and-unrealistic'. He's actually a better chipper than you'd expect, and has only been penalized on special teams occasionally, making him one of the unit's stars.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. I'll only be able to comment on the GB-DET game today, although I will see all three games.
Interesting start to the game. I certainly didn't expect GB to fumble away the opening KO and am a little surprised GB didn't hold DET to 3 points. But now GB has a nice little drive going.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
After an 8-minute drive, the Packers will settle for a field goal. This is a frustrating team.
And, to prove again the crappiness of their special teams, they miss the field goal.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Crosby's career has mirrored Nick Folk's in a strange, not altogether positive way.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Well, well, well. Did the Packers get a letter from league HQ telling them to make the Lions look good today so the talk of the Lions having to give up their Thanksgiving Day game might die down? Inquiring minds want to know.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
The Lions were obviously inspired by their incredible victory last week.
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I wonder how Eric Mangini and Hank Poteat are going to feel when they get all those Christmas cards from the Lions team.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Unemployed?
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LMAO
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I'm torn. Should I feel sorry for the way Culpepper was treated or should I just want him to stop whining?
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Nice pick by Nick Collins. Packers ball.
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And the Packers get an interception. This is an incredible display so far.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Rodgers just held onto the ball for about 3 days, still didn't get touched, and threw the ball seemingly a mile and a half to Driver--great play.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
And he still under threw Driver who was wide open.
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ya he underthrew him but cmon the ball was in the air for 65 yards
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Donald Lee screen for TD. The Packers are throwing a lot of screens to TEs and the FB.
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Packers capitalize with a TD pass to (I think) Lee. 7-7.
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Dennis Northcutt drops a wide open catch. What a shock.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Jordy Nelson continues to show his MVP-worthiness.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
And the Packers take a penalty on the return anyway.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Not mention his penalty committing teammates.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I think the Packers and the Steelers are creating the ultimate case studies in how important special teams really is. Give a team a good offense and a good defense but god-awful special teams and see how much it pulls them down.
The Packers are adding penalties to the mix, though.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Its not a Packers punt/ kick return without a penalty for holding or block in the back! Firing the special teams coordinator last season and promoting from within proving to be a brilliant move.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
A pass attempted to Jordy Nelson. Because we haven't seen enough of his explosiveness so far today.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
The "announcers" are going on about how Rodgers has not been touched today. The problems with the Packers o-line have been well documented. I haven't seen the Lions play this year. Has their pass rush been this putrid all year or has GB made the necessary adjustments to make their pass protection adequate? Or is it a little of both?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Packers have made small improvements in pass protection. Mainly from getting Tauscher back at RT. The Lions line is pretty horrible but they did sack Rodgers 5 times when the played earlier in the year.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
They got five sacks at Lambeau. Otherwise, putrid.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I've seen the Lions twice (against the Vikings both times). The first time they were able to get some pressure, the second time they probably could not have told you the QB's number at the end of the game, they'd seen so little of him. I don't know that it says much about them, though--more the Vikings' protection.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Jermichael Finley just took a vicious hit in the middle of the field and now is down.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I love it. Finley was able to stay in the game because of the penalty. Rodgers through him a little smoke screen and he gained almost 10 yards. Then, the Lions get flagged for a horse-collar tackle giving GB 1st and goal at the 8.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Do the Lions have something personal against Finley?
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Probably not. The penalties are a symptom of the Lions being a bad team.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Finley appears to be fine.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Dumb dumb penalty by Detroit there. I think Delmas will be donating part of his paycheck to charity next week.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
The Packers are able to get off a successful 20-yard field goal. A major accomplishment for this special teams unit today.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Thus was the run abandoned, later than usual, though prematurely by all but Andy Reid's standards.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
The Packers' special teams called for a 15-yard penalty on the kickoff. Amazing.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
You know, I'm a little surprised by the choice of music FOX has made for their military greetings. John Phillip Sousa wrote an incredible number of marches. Why did FOX have to pick the march associated with "Monty Python's Flying Circus"? I find it jarring for some reason.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Could be worse. I might not have been able to resist using Alice Cooper's "I Love America."
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I thought that was playing in-stadium; it didn't sound nearly as clear as any of Fox's other bumper music. (BTW, the name of the song is The Liberty Bell.)
D∈T
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Stafford forgetting hes not still playing the Browns this week.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Now that I've seen the replay of the second Stafford pick, I agree with Aikman that the receiver is at fault there for not trying to undercut the defender.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Rarely say this but love the Packers offensive game plan so far. Very balanced with a lot of high percentage throws. Dominating time of posession and keeping D fresh on short week. Rodgers great as always on 3rd down, not forced to punt yet.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
And the Packers are stopped in the red zone again.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Seventh time they've been stopped in the red zone by Detroit this season.
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It was a very good defensive play by Detroit on 3rd down.
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I think my gameplan against the Packers would be not even to try to play offense--just let their penalties move you down the field.
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I don't know that I'd be scrambling if I had a separated shoulder. Jeepers.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Great hustle by Clay Matthews to get the sack to end the half.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Well, the Lions are not out of it at halftime, 13-7.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
The Fox claymation turkey is absolutely terrifying. Seriously--I've never seen something creepier. It looks like something David Lynch would make up.
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Watching this half time show... I think to myself; Michael Jackson died to soon.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Pat Summerall still has the great voice, but physically he looks on his last legs.
Jordy Nelson is the best option at kick return right now. He's actually had some good returns and a TD called back this season. Both Tramon Williams and Blackmon do too much dancing, which is okay with the chaos of a punt return. On the kick return, Nelson heads straight upfield and makes a cut and goes. He just lacks the killer speed.
If the special teams coach isn't fired the first day after the season ends, I may have to picket at Lambeau.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Nice tackle by Crosby. Saved a TD I think.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
The Pride of the University of Colorado football program.
(Yes, I exaggerate. I am allowed to make fun of the school--I paid them about $38 000 to be able to do so.)
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I've noticed that Detroit is not gang tackling at all. That wears down a defense real quick.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
According to Football Outsiders, Tramon Williams hasn't tackled a running back all season. Woodson, on the other hand, leads all CBs with solo tackles on RBs, by a good margin. And a pick by Woodson!
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Incredible interception by Charles Woodson.
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I don't know what's wrong with Culpepper, but it was time to bench Stafford 1 quarter ago. Whether this stands or not, he's not going to win this game.
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When Al Harris went down for the season I said, 'well atleast it wasn't Woodson'. Thats why.
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I've got Rodgers and Grant in my fantasy league. This red zone inefficiency is ruining my holiday! If this interception holds up, I need points! My team can't afford to waste the Lions' defense!
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Well, Packers can't live with good field position. The O Line is starting with the stupid penalties.
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And the packers cant get a play off before committing a penalty. Seems about right.
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Packers should go for it on 4th and 2. Crosby is questionable, and the Packers need to make a statement. Good for McCarthy!
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Agreed, except that I still say everyone should go for it fourth-and-two unless you already have the game in hand.
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Somehow I don't think the strip sack is the statement you were looking for. That was not a good play for the Packers.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Is it sad that William James's name is announced and I immediately think, "How cool would it be to have the same name as the founder of American psychology?"
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I don't know if sad is the word I'd use. No offense, but the word strange is what pops into my mind.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I will point out that I have a psychology degree.
Which both explains why that's what came to mind and that I am without question strange.
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Jordy Nelson gets nothing on the return from the 10. I had to wait until after the commercial started to say anything, since that's usually followed by a Green Bay penalty.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Rodgers to Driver for 46-yards off of play action. That was a very nice play.
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Methinks they can do that all day and expect some more this game. Lions safeties suck.
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The announcing team's pregame Stafford lovefest has subsided as he is playing like a rookie against a top defense rather than playing the Browns. Packers have blitzed a few times, but seem content to bring Matthews off the corner and let Stafford make bad throws.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Another deep ball to Driver, this one on target.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Really haven't seen Finley work the hash marks deep like Vernon Davis did several times against the Packers last week. When Finley gets downfield, he typically does it from the slot or out wide. Might get a better match up on a LB if running the route from the TE position.
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Well, the Packers are in the red zone again. Time for the drive to stall.
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Apparently, you motivated the Packers.
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Yep, I played dirty and threw out the disrespect card. No NFL player can resist that ploy.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Or not. Rodgers to Driver for the TD. For a minute, I thought the pass had actually been picked off. Rodgers threaded a needle with that pass.
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Well, my fantasy opponent has Driver so I lost some ground there. Receivers get 6 for the catch, QBs get 4 for the throw.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Mine too. 20 pts already.
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This is typically where the kickoff coverages fails us and allows a big return. I will be elated if we stop them at their own 40.
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It was close. That was, it seems to me, a lucky open field tackle on ST by the Packers.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I hadn't realized this until just a minute ago, but Donald Driver is (a) the Packers' all-time franchise leader in receptions and (b) not impossibly far from the all-time franchise receiving yardage lead (964 yards shy of James Lofton coming into the week).
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The Packers are now without Chad Clifton. Anyone who suits up for their offensive line should get some sort of hazardous duty pay.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Unfortunately, I think the Seattle Seahawks offensive linemen have drained that account over the last few years.
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I'm still not sure the Pack has a #1 defense, even in this season of middling defensive performance, but one thing is for sure — the turnaround against the run has been astonishing, as impressive as anything Denver or New Orleans has done. Teams were running right through the Packers last season. Capers and very good health — up until now, Cullen? — have been responsible.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
The Ever-Incredible Joe Buck says Jenkins will be back--just had the wind knocked out of him.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
The front line has some bulk, but some speed and quickness, also. Jenkins shut down a couple of screens has week with smart reads and quickness. Raji has blown up a couple of plays today, and the first one was more quickness than muscle.
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Great coverage by Bush there. In real-time, it looked to me like Stafford was throwing to Bush, but on the replay I saw the great break Bush got. It should have been another pick of Stafford. Then, Hanson missed the long FGA.
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Packers with good field position after Hansen's miss. Time to put the foot on the gas and put the game away decidedly. We've been outplayed three straight fourth quarters by Tampa, Dallas, and San Fran.
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TD from Rodgers to James Jones. Didn't look to me like he made it at first, but on replay it looks like he did.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Rodgers to Jones for the Packers TD. Rodgers showed some good pocket awareness and movement on the play.
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With 14 points in this 3rd quarter. The packers have nearly matched their yearly total of 3rd quarter points (22).
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Best third quarter in a while for the Packers. Took control of the game. Rodgers is really, really good, so smooth he's often overlooked. McCarthy noted on his weekly TV show that Rodgers hasn't gotten a game ball all season, yet he's clearly the best offensive player and matched only by Woodson as the best player on the team. Rodgers will play another ten years. Packers will be blessed with two fantastic quarterbacks covering a quarter century.
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The Packers have a pretty comfortable lead. I wonder if they'll bring in Matt Flynn.
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Are you actually up in Alaska?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Yep. I live in Fairbanks.
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"[My fantasy football team] proves I know nothing about what I'm talking about on any given Sunday."-Joe Buck
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
And all this time I thought it was his play-by-play that proved he knows nothing.
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Good one.
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Stafford-to-Northcutt for 47 yards.
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That was a nice individual effort by Northcutt on that long pass play for the Lions.
All of a sudden, the Lions come alive on offense. Can they cash in?
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I'd keep Rodgers in. The Packers need to play action on first and second to keep moving the chains. The running game and Grant aren't good enough to keep the drive going when the other team is expecting the run. Rodgers makes enough completions that an occasional incomplete isn't a killer. Plus, the Pack has a huge lead.
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Time for the Defense to continue their typical 4th quarter free fall and MM to get ultra conservative with a lead.
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Calvin Johnson (I think) should have actually had a TD.
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Note to all CB's: Stop celebrating when the guy your covering cant catch a poorly thrown ball. I'm looking at you Jarret Bush.
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I like that they went for it. I don't like the sequence of play calls and the 4th down play was downright awful.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
100% agreed.
Were they throwing because Kevin Smith had just gone off?
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Horrible throw by Stafford there. On 4th down you have to atleast throw it in the general area of your receiver and try to let him make a play.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
For all the grief that Hawk is getting this season, Barnett hasn't made many game changing plays, although he finally looked good blitzing against San Fran last week. The local radio shows complain that Hawk should be a bigger impact for a fifth round draft pick, but they miss the point that Hawk didn't pick himself fifth: Thompson took him fifth. If Thompson had picked Hawk in the fourth round, everyone would be quite please with Hawk's steady play for a 4th rounder. Overall, both inside backers are playing okay, helped considerably by a very solid D line.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
The Lions score a TD. Fox's graphics people give it to the Packers on the scoreboard. That's how it goes for the Lions.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
McCarthy challenging to change it into a safety--on replay it looks to me like he's right, but it's a close call.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
He wins the challenge, though I'm not sure I would have challenged it anyway.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
5 points or the ball?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I absolutely think the points are more important. It keeps it a 3-score game.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I think that's probably the right answer, but I would wonder about it and, since I would wonder and challenges are NEVER 100% sure, I would probably decide against challenging.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Nice second effort by Grant to avoid the safety on 1st down.
Then, on second down, the Lions d-line wins the LOS and tackle Grant in the end zone. I think Grant was down, so it should be a safety. The refs said Grant fumbled and Detroit recovered for a TD. I think McCarthy will win his challenge.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Again, why not throw the ball there? (Grant's shoulder hits the ground before he fumbles in the end zone.) The Packers can't run against a defense expecting the run. Play action and let Rodgers throw it. I don't understand McCarthy at times. In tough spots, use your best players and your best unit.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Rodgers has given up his share of safeties and fumbles recently.
Given the Pack's kick coverage woes, would it have been better to give up the TD there and take possession, rather than conceding a safety and then handing the Lions the ball in Packer territory?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I thought it very strange he came back with a similar play to the same side of the line after nearly giving up the safety on 1st down. A play action pass to the TE running up the seam seems to me to have a high probability of success in that situation.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
from the one, you really can't run it into the endzone in 3 plays? Give the ball to your struggling rookie QB against a veteran secondary?
He escapes with a safety. Ball back. Second chance.
18 points. 3 TDS. 2 TDs, one 2 point and a FG.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Wooo, Safety!
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Fun fact: I believe this is the second time this season that GB has won a challenge with the intent of getting a safety for the other team (instead of a TD), first was against Minnesota.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I dislike Joe Buck so much that I was ready to argue with him when he said it was a good challenge. Then, I remembered that GB had challenged, not DET, so yes it was a good challenge. I feel sullied that I actually have to acknowledge Buck was right about something.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Good return by Northcutt and Detroit starts in Green Bay territory.
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Aikman is really harping on it, but he's right that Stafford looks like he's in real pain at this point.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
"Geee, I got a struggling hurt rookie QB..."
takes the guy more than 3-and-a-half quarter to figure out that small ball is the best option here.
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Boy, does that stat show Woodson's value? Eleven throws to Calvin Johnson, two completions for ten yards.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Boy, does that stat show Woodson's value? Eleven throws to Calvin Johnson, two completions for ten yards.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Don't go shotgun within the 10y line.
Didn't work. Won't work.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Lions' coach Sweitzer must have Hansen in his fantasy league...
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
LOL
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I don't like the field goal decision. You're near the end zone now and down 18. Go for the TD.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
How much you guys wanna bet MM goes 2 runs in a row for 4yards or less?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Wow. You have power.
Opens with a 5-yard completion to Greg Jennings.
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Ok so a pass and then 2 runs for 4yds. Way to switch it up MM!
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He just wanted to prove you wrong.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
You called it.
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Holy shyt a quick throw for a 5 yard gain! That coulda worked when we were on the 1yd line...
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Pick 6, Woodson. He was covering Calvin Johnson again.
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Lost the game when they didn't bench Stafford in half time.
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I was very surprised he even played at all. I'm not saying the ultimate outcome would be any different if Culpepper had played, but Detroit would have had more play calling options in the red zone, I think. I can't help but wonder if a Culpepper QB draw might not have scored a TD on one of the Lions red zone possessions.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
That opening throw is exactly what I'm saying. A five yard gain on first, the clock keeps running. Then we run twice for three yards and a punt. An incompletion on second doesn't matter if a third down pass picks up the first and the Packers get another set of downs.
Woodson is beyond studly. That evens the score as Johnson 6, Woodson 6.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
And Woodson leads in yardage, 38-10.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Woodson picks off Stafford and returns for a TD. I might be concerned, if I'm Detroit, that Stafford ran after him with his injury.
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WOOOOOOOODSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!! And he throws in a Heisman pose like he did 13 years ago at Michigan.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Amazing (and a bit worrying) how dependent the Packers are on Woodson, Driver, Tauscher and Clifton.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Most teams are reliant on those positions--offensive tackles, shutdown corner, quarterback, top receiver. Very few teams have more than adequate depth at those positions. It's the stars that win the games.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
The Packers, however, have no depth at those positions, except at WR, where Jennings ought to have surpassed Driver, but hasn't.
QB was different — Rodgers was groomed to take over from some old guy. Who's being groomed at corner or tackle?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Lang has been adequate as a backup tackle and likely could move into the RT spot. Tramon Williams will be a good replacement for Harris. I think jennings sees more double coverage than Driver, which has slowed Jennings this year. I don't think the packers are any worse off depth-wise than other teams.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I put Woodson in the Uberstud category.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Does McCarthy really need to challenge this? They're up by 22 with just over 2 minutes to go.
From what they've shown so far, I think he was down.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I saw him throw the red flag and thought it was the equivalent of him yelling across the field, "FU Lions!".
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Win it, and you can get your D off the field. Plus maybe get a few snaps for Matt Flynn.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Plus you can improve your turnover ratio and challenge win percentage!
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Wow, he wins the challenge and now can challenge again in the next 16 seconds if he wants to.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
The officials disagree with me and overturn.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Upon further reflection, maybe MM was trying to pad his challenge stats.
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Can you have a better day then Woodson? He donated $2 million to the new U of Michigan Children's and Women's Hospital earlier in the day, and now has 1 INT for every Million donated.
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I think Woodson hit for the cycle... Sack, INT, FF, FR, TD.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
That's awesome.
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Shades of Seth Joyner vs. Warren Moon
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Not only that. His ball are sparkling clean after the job Aikman did with his tongue!
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And Woodson threw in two forced fumbles, one recovery, and a sack for free!
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I was so glad I muted the TV during that CBS post game show. I have a €1400 sound set, but it's useless when the heads shout and brable. What a turds.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I just turned mine off and started doing dishes, taking the trash out, and doing laundry.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
White shirts and silver/whitish pants
vs
white and blue shirts and white pants
That's just not that smart.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Hmm. I missed half an hour of the game (I thought it started a half hour later) and yet I don't feel bad about it.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Romo does not look good so far.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Choice with a huge play out of the Wildcat. Good blocking got him a huge hole and then he just took off.
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Then the play-by-play guy is absolutely shocked that they come out of the same formation for a second-consecutive play.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
The Raiders end up stopping the Cowboys, who kick a field goal. With Oakland's offense, that could be the game-winner right there.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
FO IRC is down?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I can't seem to connect either, so it is not you.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Mike's server tends to go down at the slightest provocation, so when he's gone(as I think he is for thanksgiving) and not around to bring it back up when the cat chews through some wires or whatever, there is no IRC
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Phil Simms says that, only off-the-record, Raider coaches say Heyward-Bey is the fastest player they've ever seen.
Because you normally refuse to praise your players on the record?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
To quote a wise man's sig, Phil Simms is a cretin. I find myself agreeing more and more every time I hear Simms open his mouth.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Inadvertent repeat.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I thought he had just said something else that made you think it again.
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Lechler gets off a great punt to the 4 and, inexplicably, Crayton decides to return it, getting back to the 11.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Romo attempts to Roy Williams and it gets popped up with every Raider on the field around it and luckily for the Cowboys drops incomplete.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Felix Jones this time breaks free for a 46-yard TD.
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Unsurprisingly, the Cowboys are running the ball really well on the Raiders and having trouble through the air.
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Al Davis looks awfully red-faced for being one of the undead.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
undead?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
undead:
–adjective
1. no longer alive but animated by a supernatural force, as a vampire or zombie.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I know what it means.
I meant Al Davis is more like one of the dead than the undead.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Either way, a super red face is out of his idiom.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Another bomb of a punt from Lechler (69 yards). That may be the most fun thing about this game--watching Lechler punt.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Folk off the upright. Dallas remains up 10-0. So far, this is really a dull game.
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Do they really have to call him "Academy Award-winner Robert de Niro," as though anyone who would care at all doesn't know who he is? I would bet that 2/3 of the people who will see that commercial can even name both of the movies he won Oscars for.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Dallas temporarily has a TD on a long catch by Austin, but it's under a booth review. The announcers feel certain he's down, but it doesn't look like it to me, so who knows.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
The officials agree with Simms.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
any bodypart but the feet and hands is down, so that includes ankles and under legs. Is that's what they're called? Underlegs?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
When they showed the view from the endzone, it didn't look (at least to me) like the ankle, etc. were down, so I wasn't sure if you could say they were because of that side view. They only showed that view once, I think, though, so I easily could have been wrong.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Wow. Cool stuff.
After they denied Austin his TD I said to a friend "they will give it to him on a screen, but not on the first play, they'll expect it. But on the second they'll screen to him to give him the TD."
whaaha.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
You must now provide evidence that you are not, in fact, Jerry Jones.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
now c'mon now, no one would never mistake me for that stinkin' jerry jones fella, who are you kiddin' that guy has eyes like angelina jolie has lips. That's just scary.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Okay, I will accept that you are not Jerry Jones just because "that guy has eyes like angelina jolie has lips" is a good line.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Austin goes into the endzone. Dallas is up 17-0 in the first half and the Raiders haven't even registered a pulse yet.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
The story of Bruce Gradkowski's uniform number: Perhaps the most boring story ever told in a broadcast booth.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Fantasy:
McNabb vs Washington or
Eli vs Denver?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I would take McNabb. Of course, he's also been my fantasy QB across the board for about six years, so take that with a grain of salt.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Oh classic stats:
"McNabb threw for 156 yards against the NFL's No. 1 pass defense in Week 7 when the two teams met."
What's this sweet candy rock band doing? What's up with the disney steroids in half times today?
I dig the cowgirls cheerleaders. They are allowed do their routine here everyday.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Where all teams play "Welcome to the Jungle" the Cowboys play "Paradise City". Nice.
What's next? "Live and let die"?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Mister Brownstone?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
only when Merriman is playing.
..aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand someone doesn't understand the 'born in the usa' lyrics either.
hahaha
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Romo finds Witten for 38 yards to start the 2nd half. He took a couple of minutes to get going, but he looks fine now (though the Raiders are getting pretty good pressure on him).
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
... or the cowboys miss blocks. They leave 7 or 6 blocking a lot and still they can't pick up guys through the middle.
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Is giving up a first down something to celebrate, jay ratliff?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Olshanski. The only Soviet born player to play in the NFL.
You gotta love it.
Raiders are driving. It is more sputtering and huffing than driving, but they somehow resemble an offense.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I leave for five minutes and Oakland is moving down the field like a real NFL team.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Like before. When your QB is not that good, play small ball and occasionally heave it deep along the sidelines.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Heyward-Bey TD. I thought I might never type that.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
RJ's comments just got worse to decipher.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
How much longer is jamarcus going to be in the league? Estimates?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Kyle Boller
[edit]
make that Kyle Boller * David Carr = JmR
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
3 years. He sits on the bench in Oakland next year, gets cut, goes elsewhere, sits on the bench for a year, then gets a chance to start a game or two the next season and still looks awful, and then goes home.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Very good analogy, actually. Pretty similar conventional stats, with boller having played more games.
Russell:
TD–INT 17–21
Passing yards 3,860
QB Rating 65.5
Boller:
TD-INT 45-44
Passing yards 7,846
QB Rating 71.9
*edit - reversed the names
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
What are those stats?
Boller: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BollKy00.htm
8327y 47 TD 47 INT
JmR: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RussJa00.htm
3860Y 17 TD 21 INT
But I feel those guys are just about the same. I think David Carr is better than both of them.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Boller must've gotten some more reps since someone updated his wiki. not shocking. I think carr is better than both of them, too. Too bad he got ruined by being sacked so much earlier in his career.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I don't know. Did he get ruined? I thought he survived them pretty well. He's not "#1 material" but he sure was a capable QB. He could play for Buffalo or hahahahahahaha or hahahahaha sorry or Carr could play for whaaaaaahahahahahaha ... oh man that's funny. He could play for eh oh man whooooo. He could play for the ... the Brownies??
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
He played 4 games for Carolina in 07, going 1-3, so probably not them. He doesn't make enough money for Daniel Snyder to want him. maybe he'll go to the raiders?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
but moneywise and statuswise he is like David Carr. So expect him to land in Jacksonville to fill seats. Or Washington. And he will not have 2 years, but 3 years to prove himself. Maybe even 4 when he has a fluke good year, like Eli Manning had. (but kid you not, he will never win a Duper Bowl. If he does I'll marry my mother)
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I'm looking at this site, knowing it is based in Boston, and seeing a 3 (should be 4) loss New England team ranked ahead of two 10-0 teams and a 9-1. So much for credibility. Look up "OBJECTIVITY" in Funk and Wagnalls.....what a joke.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
You must be new. I will fill in the proper form for you.
Here we go:
New England is clearly ranked too high because you are biassed. Team's win loss record is way better than this. So much for credibility. Look up "OBJECTIVITY" in Funk and Wagnalls.....what a joke.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
What does this have to do with the discussion of Week 12 football?
Oh, wait, you're trolling. Forget I asked.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
My God, Rocky Bernard is fat. Even for a DT, he's fat. He's heading into Pat Williams/Orca/Galactus territory.
Hail Hydra!
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
A lot of Orton's passes are getting tipped at the line. I wonder if that happens to him more often than other QBs, or if the Giants defense is good at it.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Most underrated skill in football. Swap down passes as a Dlineman. That and identifying screens as a linebacker.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
This year's nationwide question will be:
Who IS the Mike?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Before you mic a coach, NFLN, you really should make she he's on delay. McDaniels dropped at least three F-bombs in about 15 seconds.
Hail Hydra!
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I don't care. Fuck.
[edit]
Yeah ok. Kids are listening...
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
How long until all kickers kick it through the end zone and the league will abandon the kickoff?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Not soon enough.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Submission for QOW: "ALL WERE TRYING TO DO IS WIN A MOTHERF*CKING BALLGAME!"
- Josh McDaniels, mic'ed up on the sideline on national television.
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Corey Webster, you just made the poster.
Hail Hydra!
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What is up with these officials? How many mistakes can they make in one half of play?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Terrell Thomas may have saved the day for the Giants. That throw by Orton was terible.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Danny Ware got KTFO.
Hail Hydra!
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Ok, tell me where I'm wrong, because I'm just looking at the NFL box score numbers.
NY lost this game. 40 pass attempts means somebody f'ed up the plan, or panicked.
Denver's running game was good, but not very good. The Moreno line of 19 for 88 is pretty impressive, but Buckhalter running 20 for 51 is not. If you want to argue that the running game dominated, I suppose you start from 19 for 88 with a long of 12 = great average runs for Knowshon.
Denver's pass D probably made the game.
This is a sloppy game. NY couldn't capitalize on 8 (for 61, compared to 4 for 45) penalties by their opponent, and the combined tally is 7/25 on third down. The winner of this game was bound to be whoever could void their bowels without badly staining their clothing.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I could argue that Denver's rush D made the game. With 3:28 left in the first half, Brandon Jacobs had 3 rushes for 3 yards. Though, yeah, the pass D was good too. Eli only had 5.8 YPA, and a lot of his yardage was in garbage time when the Broncos were way ahead.
Weak game for the Giants' offense.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Unless you look at it from the other perspective, which is Denver's defense really showed up and dominated. I don't know why the Giants didn't run more and try to wear out the smaller Denver defense on a short week. OC's seem to outguess themselves too much. But as a neutral observer I thought that of the four units, the Denver defense was the story of the game.
If you include five units, however, the NFL refs had the wosrt game. They made so many mistakes it was lucky most of the country couldn't watch it. I'm guessing they feasted before the game because they mis-called almost everything, as if they were trying to keep up with a game going too fast for them.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Wow, for the first time in FO outsiders history, I actually agree with everything morganja just said.
I'll add one thing, though. While the Denver defense was the story of the game, the Denver special teams (and especially thier kicker) deserves honorable mention. How many touchbacks was that? And when the Giants did run it out, they rarely got by the 20... Not to mention being perfect on a lot of FG attempts (although that speaks more to the ineptitude of the Denver red zone offense).
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Pats claim to have 17 questionables:
OUT
RB Fred Taylor (ankle)
QUESTIONABLE
WR Sam Aiken (hip)
LB Eric Alexander (groin)
TE Chris Baker (shoulder)
OLB Tully Banta-Cain (groin)
NT Ron Brace (ankle)
S Pat Chung (head)
WR Julian Edelman (forearm)
DE Jarvis Green (knee)
OT Nick Kaczur (ankle)
C Dan Koppen (knee)
OT Matt Light (knee)
RB Sammy Morris (knee)
G Stephen Neal (head)
LB Rob Ninkovich (knee)
OT Sebastian Vollmer (head)
DE Ty Warren (ankle)
OLB Pierre Woods (groin)
PROBABLE
QB Tom Brady (right shoulder)
CB Shawn Springs (knee)
TE Benjamin Watson (knee)
(Note that Vollmer hasn't practiced in two days, so he's probably legitimately questionable.)
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
That's some serious respect he has for the Saints, or something.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Congratulations to Logan Mankins, the only starting offensive lineman not listed as questionable (and that includes three tackles)!
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
thoughts on the HoF semifinalists?
Jerry Rice and Emmitt Smith are certainly getting in.
Other candidates are
Cliff Branch, WR – 1972-1985 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders
Tim Brown, WR/KR – 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Cris Carter, WR – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins
Don Coryell, Coach – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers
Roger Craig, RB – 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings
Terrell Davis, RB – 1995-2001 Denver Broncos
Dermontti Dawson, C – 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers
Richard Dent, DE – 1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles
Chris Doleman, DE/LB – 1985-1993, 1999 Minnesota Vikings, 1994-95 Atlanta Falcons, 1996-98 San Francisco 49ers
Kevin Greene, LB/DE – 1985-1992 Los Angeles Rams, 1993-95 Pittsburgh Steelers, 1996, 1998-99 Carolina Panthers, 1997 San Francisco 49ers
Russ Grimm, G – 1981-1991 Washington Redskins
Ray Guy, P – 1973-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders
Charles Haley, DE/LB – 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboys
Lester Hayes, CB – 1977-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders
Rickey Jackson, LB – 1981-1993 New Orleans Saints, 1994-95 San Francisco 49ers
Cortez Kennedy, DT – 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks
Art Modell, Owner – 1961-1995 Cleveland Browns, 1996-2003 Baltimore Ravens
John Randle, DT – 1990-2000 Minnesota Vikings, 2001-03 Seattle Seahawks
Andre Reed, WR – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins
Shannon Sharpe, TE – 1990-99, 2002-03 Denver Broncos, 2000-01 Baltimore Ravens
Paul Tagliabue, Commissioner – 1989-2006 National Football League
Steve Tasker, Special Teams/WR – 1985-86 Houston Oilers, 1986-1997 Buffalo Bills
Aeneas Williams, CB/S – 1991-2000 Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals, 2001-04 St. Louis Rams
I suspect there will be a lot of support for Cris Carter and Tim Brown.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I like TD - Terrell Davis. Had a great peak in his career and in my mind is certainly 'famous' enough to get in a Hall of Fame. But the voters like longevity so who knows? Emmitt getting in may not help his case either.
Interesting guy to me on that list is Steve Tasker. How many special teamers are there in the HOF? Any? I know Ray Guy is nominated, but are there any guys who played kick coverage? Seems a bit of a stretch to me.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Cliff Branch, WR – 1972-1985 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders No.
Tim Brown, WR/KR – 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
hmmmm, not a gimme, but deserving of more research. I'll get back to you.
Cris Carter, WR – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins Please see Brown, Tim.
Don Coryell, Coach – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers. No.
Roger Craig, RB – 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings Highly under-rated football player. But HOF? No.
Terrell Davis, RB – 1995-2001 Denver Broncos My screen name reveals my bias and, yet, no. His peak was the highest of any of his era (Barry Sanders lovers, please stifle), but his peak was only three seasons long. On pure talent he makes it, on career accomplishment he falls short.
Dermontti Dawson, C – 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers Awesome center; I need more time with this one.
Richard Dent, DE – 1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles Oh, goodness gracious, no. Why is he on this list? Well, I know why, its because sports writers don't know football, but they do know how to count. And sacks are a counting statistic. The reality is Dent was a one-trick pony, a pass-rush specialist who succeeded because he played with Dan Hampton and Steve McMichael. If Dent had played for any other team he would have been written off as a smallish end who couldn't play the run.
Chris Doleman, DE/LB – 1985-1993, 1999 Minnesota Vikings, 1994-95 Atlanta Falcons, 1996-98 San Francisco 49ers I need to spend a little more time with Doleman; if entertainment value counts, he's in.
Kevin Greene, LB/DE – 1985-1992 Los Angeles Rams, 1993-95 Pittsburgh Steelers, 1996, 1998-99 Carolina Panthers, 1997 San Francisco 49ers No, not even close. Very good player, to be sure.
Russ Grimm, G – 1981-1991 Washington Redskins No. I like Russ Grimm, he was an outstanding player. And I generally promote the argument that a player's position should not be held against him. If he was one of the top two of his generation at his position, he should be in. But OG is an exception. Too often, a guard is a guy who simply was not talented enough to be a tackle (see Gallery, Robert).
Ray Guy, P – 1973-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders Normally, I'm not a big fan of specialists as HOF; Guy is the exception.
Charles Haley, DE/LB – 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboy No.
Lester Hayes, CB – 1977-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders Oh, goodness, no. Possibly the most over-rated corner in history. Good teams game-planned to attack him, because he was shaky and Haynes was great. Does that sound like a hall-of-famer?
Rickey Jackson, LB – 1981-1993 New Orleans Saints, 1994-95 San Francisco 49ers The kind of guy I want to vote for, but probably a little short, no pun intended.
Cortez Kennedy, DT – 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks Man, this is hard. A great DT; was he elite in his generation? Not sure. Need more research.
Art Modell, Owner – 1961-1995 Cleveland Browns, 1996-2003 Baltimore Ravens N/A. Stands for Non-Athlete.
John Randle, DT – 1990-2000 Minnesota Vikings, 2001-03 Seattle Seahawks No. Again, if entertainment value counts, it helps his cause. Outstanding player, but not a HOF player. Am I the only only who doesn't remember Seattle?
Andre Reed, WR – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins I love Andre Reed, but there are too many other superlative WRs in his generation. If he makes it, I will not shout to the Gods. But, if I voted, I would have to reluctantly pass.
Shannon Sharpe, TE – 1990-99, 2002-03 Denver Broncos, 2000-01 Baltimore Ravens Duh. Only sports writers could make this a two-year question.
Paul Tagliabue, Commissioner – 1989-2006 National Football League N/A.
Steve Tasker, Special Teams/WR – 1985-86 Houston Oilers, 1986-1997 Buffalo Bills Uh, no. Nice open-field tackler on kick coverage. That is not a HOF-er.
Aeneas Williams, CB/S – 1991-2000 Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals, 2001-04 St. Louis Rams Oh, hell yeah. Have you watched football at all?
My tally, I think, is 3 "yes" and 4 "maybe". But there are not 7 yes-votes available to the actual committee. This is a hard process.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
WRT Chris Carter, he's got the 2nd most career receptions, and 2nd most career touchdowns (link). He'll get in.
I suspect Tim Brown will have to wait for a year without so much competition.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
No To Art Modell. He should be burned at the stake or what he did to Cleveland. Let's pass a new rule. No Owners who moved their teams can get into the HoF.
For the record, I'm not from Cleveland and I don't like the Browns.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I would say yes to Cliff Branch (Can't my college have ONE Hall of Famer?), Cris Carter, Dermontti Dawson, Chris Doleman, and Don Coryell.
As to the rest:
Tim Brown--I think five is all I can take--he would be next in line and probably belongs in. One of the few Raiders I could never bring myself to hate.
Roger Craig--Just proof of Bill Walsh's genius.
Terrell Davis--I change my mind all the time, because he was incredible for a few years, but he just didn't last long.
Richard Dent--I think Broncosguy took care of that one.
Kevin Greene--Another one-trick pony, as far as I could tell (and I do actually remember a good chunk of his career).
Russ Grimm--Didn't play long and by all accounts had a short peak. He also suffered through a lot of injuries in the second half of his career. If Terrell Davis doesn't go in, Russ Grimm definitely doesn't go in.
Ray Guy--Hahahahahahaha--A punter?!
Charles Haley--Same as Kevin Greene.
Lester Hayes--Is he seriously under consideration?
Rickey Jackson--I so want to support him, but I just can't find a way to.
Cortez Kennedy--He's a borderline case, but again a pretty short career.
John Randle--I wouldn't argue with putting him in, but he was something of a product of the system.
Andre Reed--He just wasn't good enough.
Shannon Sharpe--His numbers look great because he was really a big WR instead of a tight end. I'm sure fellow Broncos fans will hate me for it, but I'm not behind Sharpe.
Steve Tasker--I'm not putting a special teamer in. Maybe it's unfair, but I just don't see how you argue for a pure special teamer.
Aeneas Williams--He was a great player, but I'm calling him just a little short.
So, I'd say Williams, Randle, and Tim Brown are basically wait-listed with the five above in for now if I were in charge.
Of course, if I were in charge, the list would be different to begin with.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
You're right. I hate you.
Well, no, I don't really, but I disagree with you on Sharpe. If you have any video from the Broncos' SB era, watch Sharpe specifically and you will see he was an outstanding blocker, probably the best of his era among "regular" TEs (as opposed to second-string blocking specialists who only play on short-yardage sets).
If you insist on a Buffalo, why not Dick Anderson? Better player, plus not a Raider.
And Cris Carter and Tim Brown will both get, if not this year then soon. The committee loves it some counting stats.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Dick Anderson wasn't on the list! But I think Cliff Branch was an all-time great who doesn't really get his due. Despite being a Raider.
If I can just pick someone to be our rep, I actually would easily pick Matt Lepsis, but he has no shot.
I think you may be overselling Sharpe as a blocker, but I also could be underselling him. I thought he was an okay blocker. And I don't have film from then to watch, so I'm just basing that on memory. I just really discount those receiving numbers because of how he was utilized overall, such that he's really a poor man's Art Monk in my mind. He was still very, very good at least, but I don't see Hall of Fame for a poor man's Art Monk. I wouldn't complain about him going in, though.
backup irc server
Channel #fo, server cognet.catch22.org.
Come by and mock Fnor for not having a reliable internet connection!
... and also discuss football
Re: backup irc server
Not working for me !
Re: backup irc server
what's the error? :( I see lots of people on now.
Re: backup irc server
I am on cognet, but the #fo channel isn't coming up for me at 12:37 eastern time on Sunday.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Pittsburgh ESPN just announced that they'll be interviewing Adam Schantz of Football Outsiders.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
What about Bob Bornwill ?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
So, I'm supposed to have SEA-STL and IND-HOU for the early games and CHI-MIN for the late game. I suppose the IND-HOU game is the most compelling, but I'll start with SEA-STL since I'm a Seahawks fan and the Rams are a team we can actually beat. I'm not sure how long I'll be able to stomach the game, though.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
At least you'll get to see Steven Jackson and Justin Forsett, which is better than watching Kenneth Darby/Samkon Gado and Julius Jones.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
I would never pass up an opportunity to see Steven Jackson. Of course, I don't have such an "opportunity" today. I get Ind@Hou and Was@Phi early and Chi@Min late. I will be watching Indy and Houston when I have the choice.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
1st play: Hasselbeck sacked.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Eagles surprise onside to open the game... Fail. Like it though.
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Seattle goes 3 and out after a short Forsett run and a Forsett incompletion on dump pass.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
The Texans start moving the ball in very short chunks on the ground, then decide to throw one pass and get a big gain to Andre Johnson. Johnson was wide open and Schaub threw about 4 feet over his head for some reason.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Steven Jackson's first touch: 25 yards
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
For the half dozen or so of you who don't know, Rams starting QB Marc Bulger is out for a few weeks. The Rams QB today is Kyle Boller.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Even the Redskins can score a TD when they only have 19 yards to go. WTF was Andy Reid thinking?
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/09/onside-kicks.html
Occasional surprise onside kicks are a good idea.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
The Texans are at the two yard line and promptly get an offside penalty.
So Schaub throws a TD to Leach. Texans up 7-0.
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
On 4th and 1 from the SEA 29, STL attempts a 46-yard FG. This decision earns a smattering of boos from the crowd. Then, Josh Brown missed the FG and the crowd appeared to sit in numbed silence. Still 0-0 after a possession by each team
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
Damn. Ricky Williams threw a pick. Just pound him into the endzone, for god's sake! He was averaging over 6 YPC. Keep running him rather than trickeration in the red zone!
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
This way we can have a debate about who'd the worse QB, Ricky Williams or Ryan Fitzpatrick.